After losing UDRP, IVX says it will go to court for domain name.
Last week I wrote about Dutch company Besloten Vennootschap IVX Networks Europe B.V. The brand management and global domain name registration company uses the domain name IVX.eu. It filed a UDRP against the owner of IVX.com and lost.
An astute reader has picked up that the company tweeted it will now sue to get the domain name:
shame: lost WIPO arbitration case about ivx.com domain.. Monday to sollicitor: of to file an court suit at official courts Europe!
Now, beside the fact it’s pretty clear the owner of the domain name didn’t target this particular company with his registration of IVX.com, another thing has me scratching my head. The panel wrote that IVX offered $13,000 for the domain name but the owner wanted $15,000.
The company would have saved a lot of money had it just accepted the fair $15,000 offer rather than filing the UDRP, let alone a separate lawsuit.
I’m not sure I’d trust this company’s judgment for domain management.
(Hat tip to DNW reader Thomas.)
IVX says
Guys,
i think it’s time we as IVX should give our comment on this all..
what the owner of ivx.com clearly is missing out in this article is that in 2007 we agreed upon a price for 5500 USD. There was an official agreement and than suddenly they stated: sorry, price now is 11.000 USD, because another big company wanted to buy it..
the stated in the UDRP that they were planning to make some own website with it:
– what they also didn’t stated was that in later e-mails they stated (2011): well if you don’t want to buy the domain we are planning to contact other companies using “IVX” and sell it to them..
Above point made us decide to file UDRP because we were not amused by the fact that we have an EUROPEAN TRADEMARK and that they were going/ planning to sell the domain to a company that uses the same name as us. Because also a similar company in Brazil is using our brandname for same services..
Also our emails were done in private, not straight from IVX.
And we DID NOT agree into 13.000 USD.
We were just seeking how far they wanted to go with their asking price, because our last negotion e-mail was from 2009.
So we do know what we are doing when it comes to brand name management.
We are currently in discussion what the best next step is to take, and also did the owner a nice bid to acquire the name.
regards,
Bjorn
CEO – IVX
Andrew Allemann says
@ Bjorn – you wrote:
“And we DID NOT agree into 13.000 USD.
We were just seeking how far they wanted to go with their asking price, because our last negotion e-mail was from 2009.”
I’m confused. So you made a $13,000 offer but you weren’t going to actually pay that much?
“in 2007 we agreed upon a price for 5500 USD. There was an official agreement and than suddenly they stated: sorry, price now is 11.000 USD, because another big company wanted to buy it..”
Sounds like a contractual issue, not a trademark/UDRP one.
John Berryhill says
My pet hamster is named Bjorn. If you don’t stop using my hamster’s name, I’ll have no choice but to sue you in Canada!
George Kirikos says
They redirect ivx.eu to another “winner” extension, ivx.co ! 🙂 I guess it goes to show when all is said and done, folks will still want to upgrade to the .com.
IVX says
John,
This is a serious case.
Don’t make fun of this with some lame comment.
Put give some conclusive comment.
regards,
Bjorn (note: not a hamster)
IVX says
@Andrew Allemann:
– a non IVX co-worker did some investigation via his private e-mail account about a possible buy-out price for ivx.com.
– so again, NO 13.000 USD, was offered.
– via a non ivx connection he was just informing for what price they were WILLING to sell it, because we only had the asking price for a couple years from than: and also we got reaction from somebody else than the years before, therefore we thought the domain was transferred to another owner in the meantime.
– well it’s both: it’s also a Trademark issue because they don’t have any rights for the brandname IVX (while we have an Benelux and European trademark) and are active since 2002 with the name IVX.
Andrew Allemann says
-But you don’t need to have rights to the brand name IVX in order to own the domain name IVX.com. It’s a three letter acronym. If they used IVX.com to offer domain name/brand management then that might be an issue. But owning it isn’t infringing.
-So the “non IVX co-worker” offered $13,000?
Paul Keating says
Contract dispute in 2007 – hmm sounds like a statute of limitations problem. That claim is out the window along with John’s hamster (and shortly John according to MJ).
“official court in Europe”? Are there any others? Where was the Mutual Jurisdiction you selected? You have agreed to be sued there. If I were the registrant and knew any US attorney (like John for example), I would file suit against you in the US under the ACPA and you would lose because you do not have a US trademark.
Seriously, are you all really brand managers? I cannot think of a better reason to not hire you all….I don’t know which is a worse example: (a) having refused to pay an extra 2K and now must pay KKK’s in legal fees, lost management time and, of course a higher price to the domainer; (b) picked a “brand” and failed to obtain the domain.
Learn from the Streisand effect (also learn from that idiot footballer in the UK whose extra-marital affair we are not supposed to know about). Hands off the keyboard (copyright John Berryhill, 1899 – advice I should have taken by now). You are only making it worse for your company.
XVI says
IVX, you must be re*arded, that’s why you didn’t understand John’s comment.
Trademark is about CONFUSION, you do not own IVX. If the owner was in USA you’d be laughed out of court.
Gnanes says
Clear case of domain reverse hijacking attempt at max. I hope the owner of ivx.com sues you for all the losses.
IVX says
find what you find guys. Not at all a case of domain reverse hijacking. we had assistance from proper sollicitor working for a well know attorney firm.
Also, the case is only denied on the bad faith issue. Not on any other:
“(…)the Panel finds that the materials presented to the Panel do not support a finding that the Respondent registered the disputed domain name with the Complainant in mind and therefore in bad faith for the following reasons: The Complainant did not provide sufficient evidence that its trademark and trade name IVX were in fact famous at the time of the acquisition of the disputed domain name by the Respondent, and that the Respondent, located in India, must necessarily have been aware of the Dutch Complainant and its Community trademark for IVX(…)
RDNH > (…)The Complainant seems to believe in its rights in the disputed domain name in good faith, and the Complainant’s filing as such is not an abuse of the Policy(…)”
We could not give enough evidence that the current owner could know about our brand at the time of acquisition..
so @XVI: please do read the WIPO rules again, because clearly you misunderstood the reason of filing UDRP at all.
and @Paul: i’m not even going to comment your comment. We have proper ground to file an UDRP. So we lost, big deal: that’s life. We are now re-contacting the current owner and trying to sort this out.. but ofcourse that will be kept in private.
Frank says
These guys are a joke.
Bjorn says
Well not at all reverse hijacking Gnanes.
We have enough grounds to set-up this UDRP, and were assisted by a proper sollicitor who earned his mark in international intelectual property & arbitration cases.
and @XVI: i think you should really read the WIPO regulations again.
The only reason why the complaint was rejected because we could not establish enough grounds for our brand being “famous” enough back in 2006.
You guys are all making comments without really reading the whole case, because this is why the UDRP was not agreed upon:
—
(…)the Panel finds that the materials presented to the Panel do not support a finding that the Respondent registered the disputed domain name with the Complainant in mind and therefore in bad faith for the following reasons: The Complainant did not provide sufficient evidence that its trademark and trade name IVX were in fact famous at the time of the acquisition of the disputed domain name by the Respondent, and that the Respondent, located in India, must necessarily have been aware of the Dutch Complainant and its Community trademark for IVX(…)
RDNH > (…)The Complainant seems to believe in its rights in the disputed domain name in good faith, and the Complainant’s filing as such is not an abuse of the Policy(…)
—
So case closed here for any followups on this article. we stated our side of the story, let’s move on with the daily biz.
IVX.com says
I am the owner of IVX.com I am not sure why WIPO says the difference was $2000, I clearly showed them the emails.
You guys wont believe the difference was not $2000 but $675!!
IVX.eu offered $13,650 and then we countered with $14,325 which is actually a split of $13650 and $15000, the initial asking price.
I can show the proof of all this!!
Other interesting thing is they asked for 10 days time to arrange the money ($14,325). Then again asked for another week and later filed a UDRP to our surprise.
Of course now I know that it was a fake offer and I was wasting my time.
Funny thing is that he still wants to fight in a European court to get the domain???
Also, unlike he claimed, there was no agreement for $5500 in 2007.
If he has the agreement, I would request him to share it here so others know if he is telling the truth.
domain guy says
a registration does not include worldwide rights period.complainant resides in europe while respondent resides in india.this is an issue of jurisdiction period.
up next is any respondent is not required to review all trademarks worldwide..it takes millions to become a famous mark and that is not the case here.
this is a case of latches we are talking about 4 yrs passing between neogiations..a long time not to take any actions.
up next IVX is not exclusive to any company.
despite bjorns attempt to clarify his position it is very weak.the wrong side of this issue.
and i will tell you if respondent is sharp it will put up a negative branding site and the shit will hit the fan.and i will illustarte it for bjorn when ingersol rand had a problem with there bicycle lock a consumer posted a video of picking the lock
with a pen. 14 days and 10 million dollars later ingersol rand fell right in line very quickly.
ip lawyers do not have a leg to stand on the only thing occuring here is the accumlation of ip attorney fees.
yes this is extremely poor brand management
and domain guy will benchmark it against a famous mark apple.the iphone was a pervious registered mark up and operating. when apple wanted the domain did anyone anywhere hear about any legal issues when apple acquired the iphone mark? this is excellent brand management.
this issue needs to be silenced, and handled quickly out of court period and it will eventually.domain guy.
Josh says
Andrew, this is the best entertainment Ive had here in a while, thnak you Bjorn.
The penalty for this crap should be a kick in the nuts.
IVX says
hi IVX.com,
well just say that WIPO also not placed of our documents correct in their findings. But that’s bygones.
listen, i’m not going to fight this over a open forum. I can send you in private the email where you agreed with our collegue (who did the offers) for the price of 5500$ and than suddenly raised the price to 11k.
Also, the collegue (who’s not working for IVX), just send you an e-mail with the question if it was possible to buy the domain and for what price you wanted it for. As you see in those e-mails there was never stated “yes i want this domain for x-amount price”. I was stated that he had to discuss it.
by the way: i e-mailed you in private this weekend with a proposal. Just let’s get in touch again via e-mail to sort things out. Those things are not be ment to be publiced on public fora (nor will i do this with e-mails).
regards
Michael says
You have no grounds for this UDRP (other than revenge)… he’s not using it in bad faith, I’m sure he had never heard of your silly failure of a company when he purchased the domain, you don’t own IVX for any and all uses in every part of the world… and now you morons are going to waste money suing over an issue you’ll never win (and already lost once). You guys are a joke…
Josh says
Again with the price change arguement…ya youll do real well in court LOL
Its his perogative to do as he wishes, quotes are just that and subject to change. Even at $11k you were FOOLS for not buying. It makes you look worse than the $15k number.
IVX says
to all: we set-up UDRP and lost, too bad!
In stead of taking our Tweet into an article, you better contacted us if we are really serious with this or if this was just one of the options we are overthinkin. You found it that that was the case.
Nevertheless: i just responded to the article as being part of the company, and find the need to defend on the article. I did, and now are done with responding to silly alligations and “calling names” people.
@michael: i think it’s our case what we do when it comes to protection our brands. Suggestion: i don’t call you names, please have the respect to also not doing this to people/ companies you don’t know.
James says
“IVX: by the way: i e-mailed you in private this weekend with a proposal. Just let’s get in touch again via e-mail to sort things out.”
To the owner of ivx.com: DO NOT accept any proposal! Keep the name, raise the asking price.
It’s been decided through WIPO that you have no right to own this three letter acronym, and should pay like anyone else who wanted it.
The fact that you used “a proper sollicitor who earned his mark in international intelectual property & arbitration cases.” doesn’t matter one iota. They’ll take on any case to get their fee.
This is clearly reverse hijacking.
Andrew Allemann says
So we have the complainant, the respondent, domain lawyers, and pundits all in this thread now…a perfect storm 🙂
Paul Keating says
I agree Andrew, great entertainment all around.
The complainant would have been far better to have left well enough alone and approach the registrant with a serious offer using a known broker.
For some reason people who lose love to make a big deal about explaining themselves. Hence the post about the Streisand effect.
Wait….John is on the phone….something about a hamster getting lose….
Jon says
IVX (dutch company) – just wow – what a bunch of clueless idiots. Keep spending $800/euro per hour on IP attorneys – money down the drain for you.
What IVX.com needs to do, just for extra protection, is to set up some random bs business on this site. Like IVX.com – bathroom remodeling. Set up a couple of pages showing that you provide some “handyman service”. You obviously do not need to provide any service, just to have a website. And make sure to say the business existed or was being planned for a very long time.
Then you can ask for $500K from IVX (Dutch idiots) for the name, or else tell them to go you know where.
Domainer Extraordinaire says
“And we DID NOT agree into 13.000 USD.
We were just seeking how far they wanted to go with their asking price, because our last negotion e-mail was from 2009.”
Sedo tends to help losers out this way a lot.
A recent email I received from Sedo contained “Would you accept $5k if my client could come up to that amount?”
Another fishing expedition without really offering anything.
Andrew Allemann says
By the way, there are two U.S. trademarks for IVX. Neither have anything to do with brand management.
Ivan Victor Xray says
Hey,
I must have a right to the name also since my name is Ivan Victor Xray and there cant be anybody else in the world with these initials.
Seriously, this is just dumb and financially stupid. Just buy the name and pay the seller his asking price. Hell, even its $30k it still cheaper than the attorney fees that will continue to be racked up.
The UDRP was a gamble and you guys knew it but of course the attorney (who is charging you by the hour) certainly will never recommend buying the name when he will lose his billable hours.
Igor Vladislav Xang
Oh shit, there is somebody else with the same initials …
Michael says
Sorry, but I won’t show respect to a company that after failing to purchase a domain through legitimate means tries to steal it through UDRP. You are no better than common criminal.
I think your company is just embarrased that it is in the business of securing domains for TM holders and you are failing so terribly to get a domain that matches your brand… and you should be embarassed!
Nic says
Andrew,
You say “I’m not sure I’d trust this company’s judgment for domain management.”
I suspect you are very sure indeed.
Very funny Bjorn telling John Berryhill to be serious.
Hmmmmm….Bjorn is entertaining and irritating at the same time – is he from ABBA???
John Berryhill says
Serious? I LOVE that hamster.
My guinea pig has a trademark from Peru.
Alan Dunn says
I think my Canadian Beaver has a trademark with a date of use before your guinea pig.
Just saying …
Dave Zan says
Good luck to IVX Eu trying to get, much more enforce, a judgment against someone outside your jurisdiction. And what you said here can be used against you as well.
Ironic you also consider yourselves a domain brand management company while having this hanging over your heads!
concerned says
Bjorg,
I am glad I finally found you!!! Why aren’t you answering my emails? I have sent at least 4 at [email protected]??
Our entire branding campaign is at risk by your delay, please check your email
FarmerJohn says
Bjorn… Bjorg?
I’m going to email Bjork and have her get in on this crazy train too!
Domainer Extraordinaire says
These bozos aren’t going to sue anyone. They think they can get a better price by threatening to sue.
I recently sold a 3 letter .com for $125K.
UDRP winner don’t cave to these idiots.
Thomas says
Hey Guys,
I was the one who gave a tip off on the tweet the company had made. After going the DNW and this post. I had google’d a bit on ivx brand. Found out their twitter page and the obnoxious tweet they made.
I now check their twitter page again and that tweet no more exists. Shows that they don’t stand on their word and are a rip off..
Brojn…. Have you got trained on Chinese negotiation skills?. You back off on every damn thing man…
If i was the owner… I bet, i have pulled you to the courts for defamation and many more things.
You being a registrar don’t respect WIPO decision and still want to fight… Any chance to boycott this scumbug company?.
@ IVX.COM – If i were you… I would not settle for anything less than 100K now. Don’t be threatened for by the hamster…. I would make an 1$ donation to fight this for you 🙂 …. So would the 1000’s of other domainers.
I have already sent mail to few friends to about this case and thread… They should soon boycott too.
Regards,
Thomas.
Drewbert says
[quote]Because also a similar company in Brazil is using our brandname for same services..[/quote]
Well no, they’re not using “your” brandname because you don’t have any rights to “IVX” in Brazil.
You twit.
MJ, please don’t throw out the hamster. There are plenty of hamster rescue agencies who will take in unwanted, unloved hamsters. Unwanted, unloved IP attorneys, not so much.
Ah well.
trololol says
Wait they are suing in Europe! ??
Even if they win, which I hope they don’t because these BOZOs are obviously friggen morons…
Technically speaking, I don’t think they would win the domain if they had a victory in Europe. They are not in the right jurisdiction.
Thomas says
One more finding. Hamster has a history of backing off from offer’s made.
http://www.namepros.com/domain-name-discussion/300064-ridiculous-sedo-transfer-agent-cancelled-my.html
http://whois.domaintools.com/www.bo
The curious case of Hamster 😉
Contact me for all types of investigation ( 700 ) – * Email available with Andrew 😉
Domainer Extraordinaire says
Sale at Sedo this week dje.com 32000 EUR.
Shines more light on the stupidity of this Dutch company.
Richard Gear says
@ John Berryhill
I’ve told you a 1000 times its a Gerbil, not a hampster and I want it back.
3 Pound Hammer says
What a dirty, sick attempt to steal a domain from the rightful owner, in my opinion.
I hope you get your ass handed to you in court, Besloten Vennootschap IVX Networks Europe B.V.
RDNH is not cool!
Krishna says
“We are currently in discussion what the best next step is to take, and also did the owner a nice bid to acquire the name”
Just curious what was the nice bid BJOKER offered you. Dont accept anything less than 50K.
Also I read somewhere that the attorney who took money from you did not work & does not offer you refund?? Is that an attorney from India?
Here is the tweet BJERK removed:
“shame: lost WIPO arbitration case about ivx.com domain.. Monday to sollicitor: of to file an court suit at official courts Europe!”
Kate says
IVX.EU:
“Your one stop partner in worldwide domainname registrations and brand management”
They just blew whatever professional reputation they could muster.
People for the Ethical Treatment of Hamsters says
Hamsters in the same thread as domains . . . OH MY ! The google alerts must have been going crazy today eh drewbert ?
Jen says
I can imagine what the owner of IVX.COM was going through. A Europian company trying ti steal the domain because they could’nt agree on the price and an indian lawyer tring to rip off.
IVX.com, yOu can start a negative branding site like some other user mentioned. Insane companies like this must be punished, they want to spend $5K-$10K on UDRP over a $600 disagreement. Insanity! This company also has some past history of doing such unethical things. Is it possible to report this to ICANN and cancel there registrar status? Can someone suggest what options does IVX.com owner have at this point?
FYI:
If you dont want to use the domain, just hold off for another 1-2 years. 3 letter domains constantly increase in price and I think in the next boom the price will be over 100K. Most of the 3 letter domains are already in the hands of end users except the junk. This is a fairly nice domain and there are other companies using IVX.
IVX.com says
Thanks for all your support guys. Jen, It was really a tough time.
Also the lawyer was not Indian, unfortunately American. I am trying to get money back from him. If he does not refund, I will reveal his name.