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Time is running out to reject unlimited .Org (and other) prices

One week left to have your say on unrestricted registry prices for legacy TLDs.

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Last month, ICANN dropped a bomb on the domain name industry with a proposal to lift all price restrictions on .org and .info domain names. It later proposed the same on .biz domains.

The community only has seven days left to comment on the .org and .info proposals, and three weeks to comment on .biz.

So far only nine people have commented on the .org proposal and one on .info. While larger companies will probably wait until the last minute to comment, this number is surprisingly low given the impact this could have on the industry. I suspect some domain name registrars will end up commenting.

One of the comments submitted so far is from the Internet Commerce Association. It delineates between older TLDs like .org and new ones in that were effectively purchased by the registries that run them.

Indeed, I don’t understand ICANN’s reasoning behind aligning legacy TLD contracts with those of new TLDs because they are fundamentally different.

Here are links to comment on each proposal: .org | .biz | .info

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  1. Charles Christopher says

    >this number is surprisingly low given the
    >impact this could have on the industry.

    We are all jaded by previous comment periods that clearly demonstrated ICANN’s lack of care for the comments made by registrants.

    Registrants pay NO MONEY to ICANN, only registrars and registries do.

    Therefore ICANN’s primary concern is for those who bring it revenue, and how that revenue can be increased for itself. Registrants are down stream of all of this and thus can be fairly ignored, “Boil the frog”.

    I am not sure if this has changed, but in the past ICANN’s budget required 2/3 approval by registrars. Interestingly, ICANN allows a yes vote but provides no way to vote no, thus biasing the voting system in it’s favor. If the largest drop catcher (last I looked appeared to have 400+ registrars) voted NO that would get ICANN’s attention in a big way. I do not know how they can place a NO vote however … There have been a number of years when ICANN sent out emails begging registrars to vote as they had not attained the needed yes vote count.

    Of course the budget vote occurs in the Fall thus given ICANN free reign this time of year …. Politics ….

    Perhaps ICANN can successfully eliminate the primarily drop catch focused registrars before the next vote. Then Verisign can finally bring their Wait List Service online and other registries can duplicate it as well.

  2. John says

    The issue resembles the dishonesty and corruption taking place relating to the expulsion and arrest of Julian Assange, with all its propaganda and smearing, along with every other phony and crooked propaganda campaign. Take your pick – the crippling sanctions and regime change designs against Venezuela, destroying Libya to protect it’s people and give them the freedom of now having open slave trading, WMD “requiring” the destruction of Iraq, you name it.

    The ICA reasoning is plain and blatant honesty and common sense. Any child 12 or less could understand it. Zak Muscovitch should get an award for what he wrote about it.

    Andrew, the reason why you may not “understand” ICANN’s reasoning is equally as plain as day. That is because they are simply lying – “BSing,” bamboozling, spewing specious and clearly dishonest nonsense. Welcome to the world in which the rich and powerful are served and favored at the expense of everyone else. Silly talk about “maturation” and “conform[ing] with the base registry agreement” is plain and ordinary dishonesty and chicanery. In fact, I’m confident Rick would have a specific word for that kind of nonsense which begins with a “B.”

    I could not agree with JohnUK more either. Just as it is a virtual certainty that the intention with regard to Assange is to subject him to far worse and more abundant charges if he is taken to the US rather than merely an offence allowing only 5 years incarceration, how the US supported genocide taking place in Yemen is merely a prelude to intended war with Iran, etc., it is all but certain the “end game” of .info and .org is the great prize of .com.

    The arrest of Assange was a dark day for the world. The vast wave of censorship taking place against both the “right” and the (real) “left” is a dark day for the world as well. And this latest push by ICANN is nothing but another step in the same type of direction.

    This among doubtless others is a good acronym when contemplating and discussing this matter:

    RAPE (reprehensible and pure evil).

    • Charles Christopher says

      >Welcome to the world in which the rich
      >and powerful are served and favored at
      >the expense of everyone else.

      We are not victims.

      We CHOOSE to allow this, and so it is our fault nobody else’s.

      • John says

        There is doubtless a measure of truth to that, but things are hardly that simple.

        The word victim exists for a reason and sometimes a victim really is a victim. Or a population of victims. Kind of like the people of Venezuela, Iraq, Syria, Libya, etc….

        Now that ICANN is no longer under US oversight, hardly perfect or with guarantees of a good outcome either though still would have been far preferable imo, how exactly would you propose people simply “choose” to prevent this?

        Even if one were to attempt to fix things via US political, regulatory or legislative mechanisms within the US for whichever registries exist or operate in the US, there are still no guarantees and it is hardly as simple as people simply “choosing” something. Research shows that the will and preferences of the US population is hardly ever taken into account or represented no matter what they want, generally only about 30% of the time at most. The current “system” is corrupt and highly flawed, certainly not in favor of the actual We the People. In fact, you can learn all about that at one of the best examples of the use of .us itself, Represent.us.

        • Charles Christopher says

          I see the internet as the ability for people to communicate at near zero cost. I don’t think about it in terms of domain names, I think about it in terms of people connecting. Today a VOIP phone call is a flea fart in a hurricane of bandwidth possibilites.

          The fact that ICANN wishes to increase the price of a new “telephone book”, and moderate every entry, means its time to move on to different “telephone book” publishing methods.

          Rob had detailed some of these coming methods. I’ve not been paying attention to them as he has, I just know from my understanding of the internet that ICANN’s control is illusory.

          I think what Russia has recently done will eventually result in others realizing that the current root is not so sacred. Long before nTLDs I spoke to a registry about back end pricing, I was shocked at how little it was.

          I asked about their zoning a domain outside of the canonical root and all i heard was FEAR. There were zero technical reasons stated why it could not be done, only that is would be the end of internet stability if it was done … Total rubbish.

          While we are far from people leaving the internet, people are turning off their TV’s etc. Returning to first principles, people don’t care about domain names, what they want is access to what they way. Domain names tamed a geek system so that people could use it. There are other ways of addressing.

          I am saying perhaps its time to pour gasoline on the current domain name costing system. It’s is going to benefit the larger companies, and hurt personal website … But it does not change the near zero cost of people communicating with each other.

          Perhaps its time to pour gasoline on the domain costing system, and thus increase the value of other options …

          http://www.circleid.com/posts/splitting_the_root_its_too_late/

          … There is a reason why so many apps, including ones that should NEVER even ask, want to access my contacts list just after they are installed … Trying to access my personal “parallel” index of the internet ….

        • Charles Christopher says

          >Kind of like the people of Venezuela,
          >Iraq, Syria, Libya, etc….

          I know what you are referring to, yes.

          “Give me four years to teach the children and the seed I have sown will never be uprooted.”
          – Vladimir Lenin

          It remains our fault. We allow government to mold the minds of each generation through “public education”. When young adults enter into society they don’t realize the monster they are feeding and vote for. Once they wake up they realize the life they have built upon lies and to turn back will result in them giving up the illusions they have built their egos on (“die to self”).

          At that point we choose the lie over truth.

          “If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first.”

          People choose to value truth or they don’t, nobody changes that in them. Its the gift of freewill, what do you chose to do with yours?

          The internet remains the greatest “worldly” tool to uplift humanity … Time humanity takes it back from the bureaucrats by walking away from the services they so selfishly offer … Step out of the barrel so to speak.

          Domains are not the internet.

          • John says

            Well no, practically speaking domains are definitely the Internet, and “they” know it, which is why domains have been under attack so much in various direct and indirect ways and still are.

            So I could not disagree with you more on most of what you’ve said. The last thing on earth we want is for domain pricing to effectively result in even more censorship, suppression, oligarchy and plutocracy than we are already dealing with.

            The Internet is not merely for communicating under a rock, but is for publishing. Publishing is the most important and efficient way of working for a better world.

            And that means domain names. Affordable to everyone with access in the developed world, those coming online, and capable of potentially being a great equalizer between those at the top and those at the bottom and others in between, between the haves, the have nots, and the have less. The very thing under constant threat, erosion and attack for the usual obvious reasons.

          • John says

            Well no, practically speaking domains are definitely the Internet, and “they” know it, which is why domains have been under attack so much in various direct and indirect ways and still are.

            So I could not disagree with you more on most of what you’ve said. The last thing on earth we want is for domain pricing to effectively result in even more censorship, suppression, oligarchy and plutocracy than we are already dealing with.

            Continued below…

          • John says

            The Internet is not merely for communicating under a rock, but is for publishing. Publishing is the most important and efficient way of working for a better world.

            And that means domain names. Affordable to everyone with access in the developed world, those coming online, and capable of potentially being a great equalizer between those at the top and those at the bottom and others in between, between the haves, the have nots, and the have less. The very thing under constant threat, erosion and attack for the usual obvious reasons.

          • Charles Christopher says

            An “index” is very helpful and makes it easy for lay users, but it does not have to be an index under ICANN’s control. And it need not be domain names as we know them today, but something similar does makes it easier to use.

            Yes my wording was very poor, I am sorry for that.

          • John says

            I’m not really sure what you are referring to with that, but you do not seem to be recognizing the role, significance and importance of domain names on the existing Internet.

            The alleged threat of “Balkanization” into disparate “Internets” was the big argument sold to push the transition of ICANN away from US oversight. I regarded that to be a completely bogus sales pitch. Michael Berkens was also the only well known person I’m aware of to publicly state the extremely obvious, that even if this alleged threat was given in to, entities like Russia could still then “Balkanize” afterward anyway.

            I’m aware of nothing that can meaningfully and effectively replace the utility and effectiveness of domain names now, nor do I believe you are.

          • Charles Christopher says

            John, domain names are “labels” that originally helped people overcome the need to memorize IP addresses. They are an abstraction, a reference to something else.

            They are an index system, just like my favorites list which I click on and shows a description versus the URL or domain name.

            There is nothing sacred about ICANN and its “version” of domain names, version of index.

            Facebook seems to index information pretty well, and all on a single “domain name”. I’ve seen many stories of trying to depreciate domain names. Google indexes pretty well to, as I really don’t care what the “label” is so long as my search is satisifed. Again, any index will do. Remember, I have been a domainer for 20 years.

            So lets do a thought experiment. Lets say all the registries increase their renewal pricing to $1000 per year next year. Will the average individual or “hobby site” be able to justify that price? No. Does that mean their participation, and content, on the internet will end? No.

            Creativity will result in an answer to the oppressive cost of using ICANN’s index versus creating an adjacent one.

            I don’t need to know how it will manifest to know it will. The internet is not the index.

            We domainers often get a little full of ourselves on this very fact.

            I also know that censorship of today is the result of the standard centralization of that index (“ICANN root”). The more indexes there are the harder censorship will be. So the more alternative indexes the better. At least at this point. Raising domain prices as well as the uncertainty of “trusted notifiers” being able to shut down your site at will … Just how valuable is an index when third parties can delete entries with impunity? In other words of what value are your entries in the index as your control of those entries DECREASES with time?

    • John says

      With no oversight or accountability to anyone or anything, it seems nobody gets a vote. But you can comment. Andrew has done a good public service reminding people about this, but it’s sad to see how things have been going.

  3. Charles Christopher says

    Alternate Indicies

    ####

    When Obama tried to have Russia removed from the SWIFT international money exchange (database censorship) this is what happened:

    https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-08-01/russian-oligarchs-wave-goodbye-visa-switch-chinese-credit-card

    https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-11-03/russia-change-comes-swiftly

    https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-03-09/de-dollarization-encircles-globe-china-completes-swift-alternative-may-launch-soon-s

    All the talk of “bad Russia” meanwhile NSA was using SWIFT to spy on Russian monetary transactions:

    https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-02-18/de-dollarization-accelerates-russia-launches-swift-alternative-linking-91-entities

    This also drew Russa and China closer together as that stopped using the USD as in intermediate monetary exchange and now trade direct using their native currencies (continued death of the US Dollar as reserve currency).

    https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-08-09/de-dollarization-accelerates-chinarussia-complete-currency-swap-agreement

    The parallels to the DNS root should be clear.

    ####

    The war of intentional money exchange control then moved on to the DNS root as alternative copies:

    https://spectrum.ieee.org/tech-talk/telecom/internet/could-russia-really-build-its-own-alternate-internet

    “The answer to your question is yes,” says David Conrad, chief technology officer for ICANN.”

    https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/russias-internet-disconnect-plan-is-not-what-it-appears-to-be

    As ZDNet reports, the disconnect test follows a law passed last December that required Russian telecommunications companies “… to install ‘technical means’ to re-route all Russian Internet traffic to exchange points approved or managed by Roskomnazor, Russia’s telecom watchdog. Roskomnazor will inspect the traffic to block prohibited content and make sure traffic between Russian users stays inside the country, and is not re-routed uselessly through servers abroad, where it could be intercepted.”

    I would suggest the tone of that article is political spin, Russia is doing this to separate itself for the same reason is created an alternative to SWIFT. The politics is not wanting others to realize this is possible at the root.

    Also note the following:

    https://openmedia.org/en/your-canadian-internet-traffic-travelling-through-us-making-you-more-vulnerable-nsa-surveillance

    https://www.fastcompany.com/90305161/russia-is-going-to-disconnect-itself-from-the-global-internet

    “in case the government needed to pull the kill switch and sever the country’s internet from the global web.”

    ####

    Enter Paul Paul Vixie of Internet Systems Consortium, author of BIND and manager of the F root server. On Jul 30, 2010 he announced inclusion of RPZ in BIND to allow its users to perform carve outs of the canonical root.

    http://www.circleid.com/posts/20100728_taking_back_the_dns/

    More recently he has been working with the Chinese government and posted about it here on Jul 17, 2017.

    http://www.circleid.com/posts/20170718_nation_scale_internet_filtering_dos_and_donts/#11843

    “And giving those tools, and that example, to governments that manifestly do not have their citizens’ best interests in mind should concern us all.”
    -Mitch Stoltz, Senior Staff Attorney at the Electronic Frontier Foundation
    Paul Vixie 2010 “Hack In The Box Security Conference”:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l4hqtA9L-eA

    [00:50] “I’m shocked because this is a really bad idea and I can think of ten different complaints that this audience ought to have about it”

    [01:07] “This is an attack on network neutrality”

    [01:19] “This will absolutely make the DNS less reliable”

    [01:41] “The place where you are legislate the use of RPZ by all ISPs”

    [12:15] “Yes it’s also a great tool for government censorship and
    oppression. I don’t know what to do about that. I’m Sorry.”

    ####

    There is also a Blockchain based DNS root which includes OpenNIC domains:

    https://blockchain-dns.info/

    ####

    There are many more examples of alt roots / alt indices at the DNS level

    So you see I am not speculating, I’m actually referring to what is going on today at the government level. Time for it to happen at the user level.

    https://www.dw.com/en/russia-moves-toward-creation-of-an-independent-internet/a-42172902

    “If the US government were do anything as crazy” as meddling with the root server, he explained, that trust would be gone, and alternative root servers would crop up.”

    The US government is doing crazy things, and alternatives are coming online, albeit slowly at the moment.

    Again, Domain Names are a tool, they are not the internet. Oppressive renewal fees for the average person and unaccountable third party censorship (“trusted notifiers”), will further interest in alternatives.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZuAJsIs5cw4

    26:25 “I want a root server” … So do many internet users …

  4. Robbin says

    Its not their decision, its our decision to allow others to decide for us. We want to be ordered and decided by others and its our fault. The same thing is going to happen for other domains as well as .com

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