Toby Clements hopes to reboot after running into financial trouble.
Last week David Clements announced changes to his domain brokering service Brannans to focus on only bigger ticket domain names rather than daily newsletter sales. As part of this, he said he was transferring his buyer database back to his brother Toby.
It was originally Toby’s database, but Toby ran into some financial trouble and his brother David took over. Toby’s financial trouble meant a number of people in the domain name business didn’t get paid for transactions they completed. So, how will Toby win back the trust of the domain name community? I connected with him over email for an answer.
DNW:. Were all of the people that you owed money to eventually paid? Did you pay them or did your brother?
Toby Clements: Andrew, first of all, I want to thank you for reaching out to me. Back in early 2011, you were the first one to interview me about the launch of the newsletter, and I’m happy that you’re the first person I’m talking to this round as well.
As you know, I’ve been buying, selling, and brokering domains since 2007. Over those 10 years, I’ve held auctions in 10+ countries, and all over the USA, and, for much of that time, I ran one of the most successful newsletters in our industry. Throughout that period, and up until 2014, I had very few issues with clients or otherwise, despite conducting tens of millions of dollars in sales and acquisitions. Unfortunately, due to slowing sales and some personal issues, my company took on more debt than I could afford, and I ended up making some bad business decisions. This was my first experience with financial failure, and I obviously didn’t respond to it well. Hearing and reading people talking about it on the boards, phone calls, emails, etc., absolutely broke my spirit.
Even though I had to push pause on the newsletter for a while, I never ran from my obligations. The plan was always to pay back every penny that was owed, and that’s what I set out to do. After cutting all of my expenses and downsizing everything in my life, things began to take shape. I made a deal with David, my brother, to use my database to keep the newsletter alive and to help me pay down the debt.
So, to answer your initial question, while not everyone has been fully paid back yet, the vast majority have been made whole. As of today, I have repaid over 80% of my company’s debt. I expect that number to be at 100% by Q2 of this year, and will do everything in my power to make sure that deadline is met.
Moving forward, I want this entire unfortunate situation in my rear view mirror, and I will get every single person taken care of in the coming months. Anyone that has anything they need to discuss can reach me directly at toby (at) tobyclements.com.
DNW: Why should people trust you after what happened last time?
Toby Clements: This is a pretty easy question to answer, but I’d like to elaborate a little bit first.
100% of all transactions moving forward will be handled through escrow (Escrow.com, Payoneer.com, etc.). It doesn’t matter if it’s a $500 transaction or a $500,000 transaction, 100% means 100%. This protects the buyer, the seller, and any co-brokers, so all sides are covered.
This being said, I’m not an untrustworthy person, Andrew, and my primary goal at this time is to rebuild trust in our community. As I mentioned above, I’ve brokered well into the eight figures in transactions, held live auctions, hosted and attended trade shows, and sponsored parties and events. If you take it all into account, most would agree that the positive things I’ve done in our industry greatly outweigh the negative. Unfortunately for me, though, the negative is what people have been focused on for the past couple of years. I’m ready, willing, and eager to change this perception now and move forward, and I’m getting a lot of support from industry heavyweights, friends, family, and clients.
In line with this “fresh start”, I will be retiring my previous brand, TobyClements.com, and will relaunch the newsletter at DTrader.com. And this time, I’ll have some help. Ammar Kubba, a long-time friend of mine, has agreed to come on as an investor and advisor, providing guidance on the business, marketing, and strategy of DTrader. We will continue to send out a “daily” (up to 5 per week) newsletter, occasional special edition and thematic newsletters, and might even consider periodic auctions, as well. We are in the planning stages right now, but hope to launch in the next couple of weeks. I’ll be at NamesCon later this month and welcome the opportunity to meet new people, see old friends, and schedule meetings with anyone and everyone that wants to talk.
I’m done staying silent, and I’m ready to get back to doing what I do best, which is brokering domain names. Again, anyone that needs to reach me can email me at [email protected] and/or we can meet up in a few weeks at NamesCon.
T. Shane Cultra says
I read through all that saying yeah, yeah, yeah until I got to the Ammar Kubba part. If Ammar is willing to work with Toby then everyone should. I trust Ammar as much as anyone in this industry
Andrew Allemann says
Yeah, that was a surprise.
Ammar says
I’m full of surprises, Andrew… you know that 😉
Fatih Ozturk says
I think you started wrong Ammar. Trying to rebuild reputation under a new brand is good but Toby had to be on backstage. Now you hurt the new brand.
Scott says
Wow. 3 yrs of hiding and in complete silence.
My momma always said…
“Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice…”
Toby Clements says
Shane, thank you for your words and trust. It’s been a long road back, but I’ve made a lot of headway towards making everything right. There’s still a little way to go, but with continued hard work and effort, I’m confident that I’ll be able to rebuild trust and ramp DTrader up to the point where I can get everybody taken care of very soon.
Ammar says
Shane, thank you for your trust… as I’m sure do you, I believe in giving people second chances. We all make mistakes, and Toby is no exception. He made some very poor decisions that are not to be taken lightly, but he has also worked hard to make things right. I’m just trying to help an old friend get back on the right track.
Ron says
Your company took on debt, you broker a domain, you get the money, you take your cut, you send the sellers there money?
What debt do you need?
What gives you the right to keep the sellers money?
This is one of the leanest businesses out there.
Join Domains says
Gotta admit that was my instant thinking, you could run this business from a beach and mobile …..nearly
Toby Clements says
Ron, I had no right whatsoever, and I take full responsibility for my actions. When I got in over my head, I made some bad decisions, and I paid (and continue to pay) the price. All I want to do now is make things right, not only with the small handful of people left that I still owe money to, but also to the domain community at large.
Nick says
why did you not answer his question? How can people trust you if you don’t tell them who truth? What kind of debt was it? Or was it addiction?
David Gruttadaurio says
Ron pretty much sums up my thinking. That being said, it’s good to see that Toby hasn’t gone down the “Defiant Dicker” road.
Also: While making 80% of his customers whole is great, I think his return is premature. I don’t see how he can return for business as usual when by his own admission, 20% of his previous customers are still waiting for Toby to pay them back.
Michael Castello says
Toby should make them 110% whole. That being said, if he has buyers that are willing to pay the seller a good price, escrow will inject trust into the deal. 2017 will make for some great sales, Toby and Ammar have good timing.
Ron says
Doesn’t Ammar own domaintools, didn’t he give a big F U to every domainer, when he jacked up their subs, and took away services.
Ammar is not god
Toby Clements says
Hey Michael, I agree with you 110%! The bottom line is I owe the money, and I will pay it. The good news is that my database is still full of buyers, so we are looking forward to a great 2017 and hope you guys have a great year as well.
Ammar says
Michael, you are 1,000% correct. Toby should make everybody more than whole, and I have some ideas around how he can do that… but, first he has to make everybody 100% whole 🙂 Also, when it comes to trust, there is no margin for error, which is why all deals will go through escrow. Happy New Year to you and the fam, and see you soon!!
Toby Clements says
David, If there is one thing that I have learned over the past two years, it’s humility. I don’t mean to come across harsh at all, because I assure you my hat is in my hand.
The 20% that is left is a small handful of people, and the ones that I’ve discussed this relaunch with are all supportive. I’m ready to face the past head on, get back to business, and make everyone whole as quickly as possible.
David Gruttadaurio says
Toby, I’m not questioning your humility. You surely anticipated the comments that would be posted after Andrew’s blog post. I admire that you are taking responsibility for the entire matter and replying to all of the comments.
And you may not be doing this intentionally, but you’re trivializing the people still owed money when you say, “The 20% that is left is a small handful of people.” Math isn’t my forte, but one out of five people still owed money sounds like a lot to me.
Since you have finally ‘gone public’ with all of this, you probably should give the community progress reports in the future.
In any event, I hope to hear good things about you as the year moves forward.
Max Menius says
I also agree with David’s comment “Toby should make them 110% whole.” That being said, I can appreciate that Toby is being candid and accepting responsibility.
I believe trust can be regained, but it is imperative in achieving that that the 20% remaining be fully rectified. Honor and trust in business are hard to come by, but they sure differentiate you from the vast majority of players out here.
Jeff Markus says
SO…… what you are telling us is that AT THIS TIME he’s only stolen 20% of his clients money?
AND….. we should trust him because he doesn’t handle the money anymore, someone else does? He’s pretty much saying he won’t steal your money this time because he CAN’T steal your money this time, escrow.com is handling it.
Toby, it’s time for a day job. Forget this list, and leave big brother alone. Time for you to work the mailroom for a few years with Dicker and Latona.
Toby Clements says
Jeff, 20% is a lot better than 100%. I’m trying to do the right thing and will continue to work as hard as possible to rebuilt trust and make things right. Using escrow is the simply the best way to ensure that everybody is covered while that trust is being rebuilt.
Amanda Cantrell says
Mr. Clements, I would appreciate it if you would repay the money you took from my Aunt. Mrs. Cobb has been trying to reach you for several months. She asked me to help her find you.
Victor says
Dicker still owes me $3,000
BeKnown76 says
Sounds like arrogant Adam Dicker reading that. Most people in the domain industry seem to have short memories though.
Toby Clements says
BeKnown76, I wasn’t trying to sound arrogant with my replies to Andrew. I was just trying to convey that, while I know I have made some big mistakes, I was also thinking about the positive 7 years that I had in the industry. I apologize if it came across the wrong way.
Dan A. says
+1. Everyone loves a comeback but you don’t just get to say “I’m done being silent” after screwing over the community. Trust is broken. The community will have you back based on how you carry yourself in future. Or it won’t. Rick Latona not back yet either.
Toby Clements says
Dan, Let me explain that comment because I can see what you’re saying. I was referring to my silence on the boards since all of this started. My reply to Andrew is the first time that I’ve discussed this publicly. I also understand that trust was broken and it will have to be earned back. I’m eager to get started at just that and hope that you will give me a shot.
Daniel says
Hey Everyone,
I approached Toby a few weeks ago to help possibly help sell my domain name and had an amazing conversation with him. He explained to me that he went through some difficult times (which he did not have to disclose) and is looking forward to doing the right thing for his clients. Here’s my 2 cents after reading the history of what transpired:
“nobody is perfect so before you make any judgement or kick someone when they are down , realize that you are not perfect either” I believe that everyone deserves a second chance and you should give Toby a shot at doing the right thing.
The only thing that we have in this life is our name and credit and Toby realizes this and he’s trying to do the right thing. I hope Toby repays everyone back and will do the righr thing moving forward. Good luck Toby!
Josh says
I have kind of lost track of the story, does Toby still owe people money for domains they sold via his service, yes or no?
Ron says
He states in the article above, 20% of his debts are still outstanding
Toby Clements says
Josh, yes, I do still owe a bit of money to a handful of people. As I mentioned, though, the bulk of everyone has been paid, and the only thing on my mind now is paying off who’s left in a timely manner.
John Berryhill says
How much and how many?
Do you know?
Andrea Paladini says
I think it’s self-commenting …
“Tell me with whom you walk and I will tell you who you are …” 🙂
Andrea Paladini says
That said, everybody can make mistakes in his/her life and (sometimes) deserves a second chance.
Latins were used to say “errare humanum est, perseverare autem diabolicum”. 🙂
When we contacted Toby some years ago to run a couple of names on his newsletter, he was kind with us, so I’ve nothing personal against him.
IMHO his mistake was not being transparent since the start, his 3 years silence was not a good way to react to this situation.
Hope he has learned from his mistakes (bad habits, addictions, etc) and ready to become a better person.
Unfortunately, sometimes, as someone said in “Wall Street”, “the main thing about money is that it makes you do things you don’t want to do …
Drewbert says
Who would you rather have as a leader? Someone who abuses the system, declaring his company bankrupt multiple times and walking away for piles of debt – “that’s business!” Or someone who remembers he owes people money and – even though it’s quite late – pays it back eventually.
I know who I’d rather put my trust in.
Toby Clements says
Drewbert, Thank you very much for your kind words. I look forward to validating that trust.
Snoopy says
Can anyone confirm that they have actually been paid back in recent times?
Ron says
Here is the thing, it all comes down to ethics.
If I owe someone money, and I need food, I would rather starve than take from someone else.
It is something that you cannot turn off, or on, either you have it, or you don’t.
I would love to bid on great domains in auctions everyday, but if I don’t have the $5K to win the bid, I will not bid.
Ammar sold his Escrow company to Escrow.com, does this industry need another broker? Nobody really cares, it your name is good enough, you have a dozen different venues, a dozen different brokers who will gladly take your 20% all day long.
I agree with what someone said above, try another career. Google your own name, it has poor results, with negative remarks.
You will only be doing your clients a disservice as you don’t have the trust factor for someone to do business with you.
I am sorry, everyone deserves forgiveness but in America this fraud nonsense, and playing at everyone else’s expense has to extend outside white collar crime.
adam says
should named the new company cojones
Ammar says
Adam, I tried to buy it, but Frank wants too much money for it 😉
Ross says
In project management when issues and risks materialize, constant and clear communication is the key to managing those items – people may not like what they hear however they won’t lose trust … immediately. If Ammar makes a statement that he’s involved I’ll get back on the list and see what business can be done.
Ammar says
Ross, you are wise beyond your years… this is exactly what I have been advising Toby, i.e., communication is key. From what I can tell, he has learned his lesson.
Join Domains says
Is this a boys club thingy …
John Trainer says
People are funny. They get taken advantage of, then come back for more.
People: are you willing to trust a person who admittedly stolen money from investors and not repaid them back yet?
“I’m done staying silent, and I’m ready to get back to doing what I do best, which is brokering domain names.”
That is cocky. Nobody gives a flying —- about whether you’re silent or not.
What they do care about is being paid back money that was stolen. Call a spade a spade.
If it wasn’t stolen, you’d have a loan agreement in place from the sellers of the domains to you, and they’d be charging you interest.
“This being said, I’m not an untrustworthy person, Andrew, and my primary goal at this time is to rebuild trust in our community.”
How about rebuilding trust by paying back everyone before you try to re-enter the industry.
How about making people whole again, with interest for the time you kept their money, before you start doing it again?
I wish you the best, but also wish you were doing it in another industry.
Toby Clements says
I mentioned in another post that this came off wrong. What I meant is that I was done being silent on the boards and not publicly addressing the issue. What I should have said is “I’m ready to talk”, and more importantly, to your point, I’m doing this now so that I can expedite the repayment of those people that are still owed money.
Victor Paez says
I agree with John Trainer. Adam Dicker still owes me money($3,000) and I have been seeing his name on different platforms. He is trying to come back…beware!!!!
Toby Clements says
John,
Sorry, meant to paste all of this in.
“I’m done staying silent, and I’m ready to get back to doing what I do best, which is brokering domain names.”
That is cocky. Nobody gives a flying —- about whether you’re silent or not.”
I mentioned in another post that this came off wrong. What I meant is that I was done being silent on the boards and not publicly addressing the issue. What I should have said is “I’m ready to talk”, and more importantly, to your point, I’m doing this now so that I can expedite the repayment of those people that are still owed money.
“This being said, I’m not an untrustworthy person, Andrew, and my primary goal at this time is to rebuild trust in our community.”
How about rebuilding trust by paying back everyone before you try to re-enter the industry.
How about making people whole again, with interest for the time you kept their money, before you start doing it again?
Your point is well-taken. My reasoning for now vs later is that staying out of the business and not having that income has made it very difficult to pay everyone back in a timely manner. I’m looking at the launch of DTrader as a way to get people paid as quickly as possible and put all of this behind me.
Kenny says
Toby has owed me money since late 2013, and I am still owed money, though David has paid off some of the principal, over the last 3 years, and I appreciate that, but of course I still expect to be paid in full plus interest. in that spirit, I would actually like to see Toby get back to selling domains, and for us to put this who thing behind us. A bit more transparency on what really happened, and what caused the financial troubles, would also be appreciated, but understand why Toby is guarded in this regard.
Toby Clements says
Kenny, I appreciate your comments and patience with the payments over the past couple of years. Like you, I would like to put this behind us too and feel like this is a great opportunity for us both. You will be paid in full, make no mistake about that. Any way that I can work with you moving forward to get the debt paid is all I care about. Shoot me an email and let’s discuss tomorrow. Happy to hop on a call then too so we can discuss.
Josh says
@Toby, I appreciate the reply “Josh, yes, I do still owe a bit of money to a handful of people.”
However I read this in your answer to Andrew as read in the article when asked a similar question…
“while not everyone has been fully paid back yet, the vast majority have been made whole. As of today, I have repaid over 80% of my company’s debt.”
Can we be frank? Does the term “company’s debt” (as a part or whole) actually translate to the money you took which did not belong to you from your customers domain sales? And if so would that not translate to theft? I am not stating this in a mean spirited way but for me it is important someone admits their transgressions fully and without choosing their words carefully (company debt) in order to truly turn a leaf.
If you are willing to state that what you did to your customers specifically was not a “company debt” issue and rather a case of …. (I will leave this blank for you to finish).
I would say that took courage to admit and we all deserve a second chance in life, if we didn’t where would any of us be.
All the best
Toby Clements says
Hi Josh, You’re right. I’m not trying to mince words, but please know that this is the most difficult thing I’ve ever faced and I’m trying to answer everyone as best as possible. It’s comments like yours above that are helping me understand where everyone is coming from and how my actions/replies effect this.
“If you are willing to state that what you did to your customers specifically was not a “company debt” issue and rather a case of …. (I will leave this blank for you to finish).”
My company had a lot of expenses with travel, shows, etc, but at the end of the day they were MY expenses, so I’m to blame.
I replied to John Berryhill and addressed exactly how things progressed and ended for me back in 2013. Please see that thread to have a better understanding of my mindset back then. I’m not the same person these days and anyone that knows me personally today would agree 100%. This situation has humbled me to the fullest extent possible, and I will never be able to move forward in life until it’s completely fixed.
Nick says
Honestly this sounds ridiculous. If you want trust how about say the WHOLE truth???? 99.9999% of people who never steal to pay their company’s debt. They would simply let the debt be late, and try to pay it off later. No other person would steal from sellers to pay a debt. So why not give the WHOLE truth and explain the debt if you want people to trust you?
Toby Clements says
Nick, you’re right. Please see my full reply to John Berryhill. I am being completely transparent about what happened there. Thank you for pointing this out.
Kassey Lee says
I look forward to Toby’s coming back to report that he has paid back 100% of people’s money — and compensation for the cost caused to them. That should help rebuild the trust.
Toby Clements says
Kassey Lee, No one wants to see that happen more than me, and I appreciate you giving me the opportunity to make it happen.
Ron says
I agree Debt is the wrong choice of words to use, this means you are not being honest with yourself.
You took clients money to fund your lifestyle, your facebook had pictures of limos, and fancy vacations, if you can’t afford such things you shouldn’t use other peoples monies.
If you haven’t been able to repay people back in a few years this is a lot of money we are talking about.
This whole atlanta crew has been bad news for a while, with the watches, and what not.
Ammar has enough names, this guy can spend his life brokering those, why do you want to inflict more of the same on people.
Does this industry need another broker, lol?
Nick says
Even this makes zero sense. No other person would steal from a bunch of sellers to pay credit debt for limos and vacations. They would just not pay that debt, not a big deal. The only thing that would make sense if money was stolen for addiction.
Toby Clements says
Nick, You’re correct. Please see the full reply below to John Berryhill.
Nick says
well not much else for me to say, but good luck to you. How you keep things on the level.
John Berryhill says
I have two questions:
1. When you say that you intend to pay everyone back, do you mean everyone, or everyone who chases you down? I can recall chasing after you for a while on a series of broken promises on behalf of a client. As I sit here, I cannot recall whether that was eventually resolved, or whether it simply became fruitless. Do I have to now dig back through my old correspondence to refresh my memory, or can I rest assured that you will be reaching out proactively to put these things to bed?
2. “Bad decisions” on this scale don’t just result from an “error” of some kind. These were not “bad decisions.” This was a pattern of behavior. This sort of behavior is often driven by a mental health problem of some kind. Addiction comes to mind, for example, and there are many kinds of addictions beyond, say, substance abuse of some kind. Some people get an unshakable rush from gambling, spending, all sorts of things. What have you learned about yourself? Have you sought professional counseling of any kind? Everyone makes “bad decisions”. That’s unremarkable. I make more bad decisions before noon than most people make all day. Did you know they were “bad decisions” at the time. If not, then what is it in you now that would prevent making more bad decisions in the future? If so, then have you addressed whatever personality issue drove you to persist? In other words, staying sober is a whole lot easier if you can’t afford any more booze.
If the bars weren’t closed on Sunday, the churches would be empty. But they get the same repentant sinners each week this way.
There are a lot of smart people in this business, but not as many wise ones. Ammar is plenty of both. If he is genuinely committed to putting in the effort to work on you, and you are committed to setting things right, color me cautiously optimistic.
But whether anyone you screwed over is willing to reach an acceptable conclusion with you, is entirely up to them.
John Trainer says
From a wise man comes wise questions.
You sum up the situation very eloquently. Thank you for that.
[email protected] says
Get Ammar to loan you the money to repay the debts, everyone is hole, and you are his problem then.
One less lambo for you Ammar no worries
Nick says
Best post on here
Toby Clements says
“1. When you say that you intend to pay everyone back, do you mean everyone, or everyone who chases you down? I can recall chasing after you for a while on a series of broken promises on behalf of a client. As I sit here, I cannot recall whether that was eventually resolved, or whether it simply became fruitless. Do I have to now dig back through my old correspondence to refresh my memory, or can I rest assured that you will be reaching out proactively to put these things to bed?”
John, Thank you for your post. I want to be fully transparent with everyone on both questions.
When things went south for me back in late 2013, I had a list of people that I owed money to. If someone I missed reached out, they were added to the list. When I passed over the database to David, that list of people went with it. He contacted each of them personally to set up payments (on my behalf) moving forward. In 2014, I reviewed all my books and, to the best of my knowledge, everyone was on there. That being said, it’s possible that I missed someone, and I want 100% of anyone that I wronged made right. I will leave no stone unturned, making sure that I make my apologies and full restitution to everyone financially until I can finally close this chapter of my life. If anyone needs to contact me in regards to non-payment, please email me directly today at [email protected].
In regards to your client that you mention above, I know exactly who he is and he has been paid via Brannans over the past two years. He’s not paid off, but is well aware of this DNW post and has expressed his support of me getting back to business. If you want to shoot me an email, I would be happy to review the situation with you so that you can verify my statement. If you’re out any time or money due to this situation, I’ll make sure you’re taken care of as well.
“2. “Bad decisions” on this scale don’t just result from an “error” of some kind. These were not “bad decisions.” This was a pattern of behavior. This sort of behavior is often driven by a mental health problem of some kind. Addiction comes to mind, for example, and there are many kinds of addictions beyond, say, substance abuse of some kind. Some people get an unshakable rush from gambling, spending, all sorts of things. What have you learned about yourself? Have you sought professional counseling of any kind? Everyone makes “bad decisions”. That’s unremarkable. I make more bad decisions before noon than most people make all day. Did you know they were “bad decisions” at the time. If not, then what is it in you now that would prevent making more bad decisions in the future? If so, then have you addressed whatever personality issue drove you to persist?”
This is where I want to be more open with everyone here because I’ve had plenty of time to figure out where I went wrong.
Before I started in the domain space, I wasn’t accustomed to having an extravagant lifestyle. I made decent money, but once I had a taste and saw the income I could generate with domains, I was hooked. Within the first 6 months, my personality had changed, I changed the way I dressed and wanted everything to be as “high end” as possible. If you looked up the term “new money” in the dictionary, there would be a picture of me next to it.
At that time, I was partnered with other people, but fast forward to 2011, I went out on my own with the newsletter. Most of my deals were closed with escrow.com, but there were always deals closing out between me, buyer and seller. Between my commissions, advertising money and other revenue streams, I was on cloud 9. I got hooked even more at that point and anywhere I went, it was first class this, presidential suites, renting high end cars, etc. A lot of this was spent from my company at trade shows. The last show I did in Spain I hosted a couple of parties, picked up meals, etc, but I have to take responsibility that I was also living way above my means. I never in a million years thought the money was coming to an end, but in late 2013 it was like someone turned off the faucet. The next thing I knew is my books were upside down and people were unpaid and I realized that I had made the biggest mistake of my life.
In 2013, my wife had had enough of me as well. We got divorced and all of a sudden I was alone. I started selling off every asset that I owned to pay bills and debt, but that well dried up pretty quick. I did quit drinking for a lot of 2014 and saw a therapist twice a month which ended up helping me level back out to who I was before I ever sold my first domain.
I now live in a modest apartment and drive a 6 year old chevy pickup truck. My monthly bills are at an all time low and my biggest enjoyment in life is hanging out with my son. This is who I once was, but the money and popularity got the best of me. All I can say is that it won’t happen again. All I want to do moving forward is get to back to doing real business which will assist me in getting everyone paid back, put this chapter behind me, and live a normal life. You won’t see me driving exotic cars or burning money. When I mentioned “fresh start” earlier, that’s what I want it to be.
I know there are people here that won’t soon forgive me, and all I can say is I’m sorry for everything that I’ve done. The buck stops with me. It was my fault and no one else’s. I will make things right.
adam says
THIS is what the whole article should have said. Good reporting John and good work manning up to the apology Toby.
John Berryhill says
Fair enough. Good luck.
EM @QUE.COM says
@John Berryhill
Well said.
Jay says
Brokering isn’t complicated especially with 3 way Escrow transactions available at Escrow or Payoneer. Buyer pays the sales price, broker sends the seller his proceeds, broker takes the remaining cut. If he owes 20% of the people years later than he obviously stole domainers proceeds for his own debts.
Equivalent of being married 10 years and beating your spouse the last 3 years then having the balls to say but I was good 7 of the 10 years so I was more good than bad and I wanna make things right now. Which translates into I’m back cause I need money. Meanwhile we have no knowledge of the domainers financial status who got robbed of their cash for years. Did they have to eat Instant Lunch Ramen noodles for 6 months? Did some of their bills go unpaid due to getting screwed?
Wanna make things right, get a real job and pay the remaining 20% off or ask one of your domainer buddies that will pat your disgraceful return to the industry on the back to front ya the cash to pay off your remaining debts before you try a relaunch. If they think your 100% top notch now then let their wallets show the confidence they have in ya making a legit return now.
Trust is like virginity, one pric_ and it’s gone for good.
Rich says
Although a have not sold any domains through Toby ( i did try though with 4,5 names ) I think the fact that he came and apologize and came back to the industry which i took a lot of guts i think he should be given a second chance.
At one point or another we all got a second chance from someone.
Toby, you can count on me.Put me on your newsletter.
I’m sure you’ll make us proud again.
adam says
It does take guts (or cojones) but I searched for the words “apologize” and “apology” and “sorry” and didn’t see them in the article above.
It takes even more guts NOT to apologize and stage your “come back tour”.
Toby Clements says
Adam, You’re 100% correct. The truth is that I’ve never been more sorry about anything in my life. This is by far the worst situation I’ve ever put myself in, much less the people in the industry as a whole and people that I wronged financially. I want everyone here to know that I do in fact take full ownership of the situation and apologize to the largest degree. It’s really difficult to swallow this pill, but it’s long overdue. Thank you for pointing this out.
Toby Clements says
Rich, Thank you very much for your support and I look forward to talking again.
vanitylicenseplateMark says
Toby still ows me money and never reached me thru those years. He still ows at least 2 persons I know in industry, so maybe it’s 80% debt not 20%? Who knows the reality, nobody except Toby and he don’t talk by numbers…
How much people you still own? What amount in a whole?
Dan says
How much does he owe you, how much does he owe your friends?
Let’s hear some $$$ amounts, he is lucky he didn’t rip me off, I would have been on the first flight to Atlanta and made him sell everything he owed to get my money back.
He shouldn’t have a laptop to type on if he owes you money!
Toby Clements says
vanitylicenseplateMark, I don’t recognize your username, but want to hear from you. Please email me directly at [email protected] and we can talk there or get on the phone to discuss.
TexasBill says
Because Ammar Kubba, Shane Cultra, and Andrew Allemann now trust Toby doesn’t make Toby more trustworthy. It makes them less trustworthy.
Andrew Allemann says
Where did you read that I trust Toby?
Richard St Cyr says
Welcome back Toby, Many people have had bumps in the road your are not the first and won’t be the last. Good Luck
Toby Clements says
Hi Richard, Thank you for your words and I look forward to hearing from you soon!
Fatih Ozturk says
The most what a broker needs was “trust” and Toby lost that. This is a fact. He can still make money but i think trying to convince the old domainers is useless. This was a simple business. You have a list and you market domains.
We dont know what happened to people that he owes. How were their lives affected? Toby is back but are they?
I think the right think would be not announcing this. You could work for Ammar and pay your debts behind the scenes but trying to rebuild trust is useless.
Now you also hurt your new brands reputation.
I wish you all the best anyway.
Dan says
I am sure he has been working behind the scenes, what tells you he hasn’t.
I’m sure he didn’t go back to selling used cars.
Easier for them to say hey all we have buyers looking for 2 and letter number .coms, send us your list, then they send lowball offers on 6 figure names, and take a nice commission.
Easy Money, what does this business require a smartphone, internet connection, and half a brain.
Oh wait morals, and ethics don’t hurt.
I would say if you haven’t paid everyone back, your not ready to enter.
I did agree with Mr.Berryhill’s comments, they were quite on point.
What’s Ammar’s percentage in this for backing you, 50%?
Fatih Ozturk says
Thats right he could be, but coming back with a new brand and telling i did not pay all my debts but here i am now with a new name is weird then, to say the least.
Weirder for Ammar to be behind this. If i would want to help Toby i could just let him work as a broker under my control. Strange all the way. I liked him though. Surprised to see him fall in this situation.
Toby Clements says
Hi Fatih, Nice to hear from you. I’ve had multiple conversations with some of the people that I didn’t pay and while some weren’t really affected, some others were. This is all part of the healing process that I’m trying to do here. I’m not just trying to pay people and walk away. If and when it’s possible, I want to do anything I can to help them in the future. It’s really a case by case situation, but I assure you that I know there are emotions involved on both sides of the table. I also assure you that I won’t leave that table until things are made right.
As for announcing the DTrader rebrand now, this was a collective decision to acknowledge and deal with my situation head on. Ammar and I both felt that it was best for me to face the music now so that I could get back to work and get everybody paid back as quickly as possible. When we look back at this in the future, our hope is that DTrader will be a great platform for people to buy and sell domains. The only way that happens is by getting everyone paid and getting to work.
John M says
How the hell does a guy who owes people money have the balls or afford to go to Namescon, pay for flights, conference, rooms, food etc??? If you owed me $50 or $5000 and cant afford to pay me but I see your ass at Namescon you would regret it. It certainly doesnt go toward rebuilding any trust.
Ron says
As John stated above I would certainly say this is more of a mental illness, as when you spend someone else’s money, and that money is gone, suddenly it is not your problem anymore as it is spent.
There are some serious underlying medical issues at play here starting with narcissism. This is disturbing, to say the least.
Ammar seriously just write a check, and make him work off the debt if you truly want to be a big brother to this person.
If you can’t trust hm enough to pay off his debts, then you are rolling the dice with everyone else’s domains, which is not fair.
Toby Clements says
John M, The reason that I’m going to NamesCon is so that I can talk to everybody there and start the process of rebuilding the trust and relationships that I broke. My first and foremost priority is to get every single person that I owe money to paid back, and I can’t do that if I’m not working. I also want to be there, in person, so that people can talk me to face-to-face, and I can start to make amends that are long overdue.
Issac says
The only thing I learned from the interviews and posts is that no answers will be giving and he seems to be lying? Lots of evasion. Seems like there was no debt and money was used for something else. The only thing new seems to be that 2 well know domains say, who cares trust him again cause we says so. Such a weird story.
Toby Clements says
Issac, I’ve been replying to posts throughout the day and I’ve been very transparent on these topics. Please take a look at the John Berryhill post for the most informative reply. Thank you.
Josh says
@Toby, I think there is a specific word here people are looking for that has not been used by you. I Toby ___________ customers funds to cover expenses. I tell ya Toby if you can fill that blank in it goes a long way, will lift a great weight and leaves you naked and ready to rebuild. We all fall but recovering includes being completely honest with ourselves too.
You are seeing that even though you have started repaying and making things right it is that one word ________ you are holding back on that will block true redemption in the eyes of everyone.
tommybutler says
Everyone deserves a second chance Wish Toby all best witn new business venture. It takes a brave man honest man to admit he made mistakes it also shows his personallity that he has been paying back what owes. Good luck.
Toby Clements says
Thanks for your support Tommy, please shoot me an email and let’s catch up.
Jan says
Any bets on who will return after Toby to get a second chance with domainers?
Rick Latona or Adam Dicker?
jaqpot says
Hopefully NOT Adam Dicker
Victor Paez says
I hope it’s not Adam Dicker…He owes me $3,000. I do see his name slowly appearing on different platforms. He should be banned from domaining!!
Victor Paez says
Adam Dicker still owes me $3,000…why doesn’t he try to pay everyone back. He stole money from many people. He(Dicker) should be banned from domaining!!!
Jan says
If Ammar Kubba is now guaranteeing Toby then Ammar should loan Toby the money to pay everyone back 110% BEFORE Namescon!
Ammar has the money so if he does not loan the money to Toby so Toby can pay back people who have WAITED YEARS then it shows Ammar does NOT really believe in Toby…
Fatih OZTURK says
The right thing to help Toby was paying all his debts and making him work behind the new brand not trying to rebuild an already ruined brand “Toby Clements Newsletter”
All of us made big mistakes but i really dont see the logic behind going to namescon to build trust when you still owe people Toby. Some of the people sure will be very very angry seing you.
For me this is not a brave thing this is a wrong thing.
Other than that if you are still breathing then you are being given a chance by God no matter what others think. Just dont expect it to be the same with all of old friends. Many will forgive and you will go on with them and the new domainers that are joining everyday.
I wish you all the best.
Jan says
Paying flights to Vegas, hotel in Vegas, Namescon pass, meals in vegas etc. while there are still people who are owed money that was factually STOLEN by Toby YEARS AGO takes some cojones…
justme says
I always forgive but that doesn’t mean I’d do business with him. His story sounds great until you get to the part where he is going to Namescon. That money could get those handful of people he owes a small bit of money to paid off. Tobys reasons for getting in debt and needing to steal his clients money makes sense. Now he’s trying to still get back into the lifestyle before paying his victims back. Stay home Toby. You’ll get more respect than showing your face to people at this point. Showing your face is an excuse for getting back into the fun and games circuit. You need to work on the 8th and 9th steps just a little more. Keep trying and stay away from Namescon…pay your debts..all of them
Andrew Allemann says
I think that’s misguided. If he’s going to pay back his debts, he has to work. Going to NamesCon is part of that. It costs just a couple grand to go to NamesCon, but he should be able to get a lot of business out of it.
EM @QUE.COM says
Are you kidding me.
It’s ok to come back with “backer” for a second chance, but doing the same business again. I don’t think so.
Ron says
This is why this business is a farce, this is how you said you got into debt into the first place.
You need a device, and a internet connection, NOTHING ELSE!
Hit up every 3L.com owner, find them end users the ones who want to sell, $$$$ all day long.
These guys want everything on a silver platter, like his brother, oh I am looking for 2 letter, and 2 number .com’s today, anyone have any at wholesale prices, shoot me an email.
Give me a break! ENOUGH
Toby Ornaughtoby says
Really
He should get a lot of business out of it?
Anyone that does business with this guy going forward deserves what they get
Maybe they should give Bernie Madeoff another chance; he’s sorry too
Toby should be in jail
Along with Latina dicker and a few others who outright stole money from m their clients
People who trusted them
You think if he were still alive it’d be ok to allow Jeffrey Dahlmer to operate a day care
As long as he says
Oh I’m so sorry
GET REAL
DN Invest says
I believe in giving the second chance. However, until the debt is paid in full Toby should not spend anything what is not essential for him to survive, at list not in public (like paying for NamesCon).
Regarding doing business with him….well, Escrow.com is safe, and if his newsletter can help, why not? We are here to make money, right? Is it moral? Yes, it is. It will not hurt anyone if some of us use his newsletter, and can even help him to pay some of the remaining debts.
I don’t like the fact that he was silent for the last few years and now he wants to ride again, before he paid his debts in full. 80% is not 100%. He should continue to work with Ammar on that new project, and to send $x,xxx to someone to whom he still owe that amount, instead of attending NamesCon for that money.
It is clear that Toby Clements will never have 100% positive reputation again, just like Adam Dicker. They need to live with that and it is not easy I guess. Anyways, I believe in giving the second chance, but not giving the trust again (at least not immediately). Therefore Escrow.com option sounds good to me.
Toby, continue to work hard on paying your remaining debts and send some money to persons to whom you still owe, instead of attending NamesCon. There might be a person who was not paid by you and who would like to attend NamesCon but cant afford it. If you go there your message to that person will be something like “Fu*k you, you will get the money someday, but my needs for fun and personal progress are more important than paying the debt to you”.
Toby Clements says
DN Invest:
In regards to my NamesCon trip, we feel it’s important for me to be there to reconnect with old friends and colleagues, make new ones and most importantly, meet with anyone that needs or wants a face-to-face with me. I already have two meetings scheduled with people that I owe money to and they are supportive of me being there.
As for the cost of going, my flight was booked with points and I’m sharing a hotel room. I was also given a promo code for my ticket at $299.
I’m not going to this conference for fun and games. I’m there to get back to work and to right my wrongs. This relaunch is not only a healing process for me, but it’s in place to make sure that 100% of everyone is taken care of.
If you want to meet with me, email me directly at [email protected] and let’s set something up.
jaqpot says
Adam Dicker still owes me money!! They should NOT be in the domain industry again!.
Victor Paez says
Adam Dicker still owes me $3,000…why doesn’t he try to pay everyone back. He ripped off a lot of people. He(Dicker) should be banned from domaining!!!
puneet agarwal says
Although I am nothing in domain community but i think if someone is accepting his mistakes , he should be given a second chance.
All the dues must be paid with full interest .
Brad says
Everyone needs to be paid in full before the trust will start to come back.
If Ammar wants to help and be a partner and lend his name to this, he should front the money to make everyone 100% whole. If he doesn’t have faith that he will get that 20% back from this venture, why should anyone else?
P.S. Domain Tools %$&#* on SMB’s and small domainers. This was horrible and everyone at Domain Tools should be ashamed. There is no reason you couldn’t grandfather people in. No reason whatsoever. I was totally fine with a price hike. But a price hike and reducing resources by 10x? That is some pharmaceutical industry style increases. Let me pay $99 a month and a la carte ( like you used to offer) for the services I need. Why do I need an Enterprise plan?
Erhan Yilmaz says
I hesitated to post as I do not expect to recover my money any more, but just for the record and to notify fellow domainers. Toby Clements sold me WeightLossHerbs.com about 6 weeks ago and asked me to skip Escrow as it was a small transaction. I sent the payment via Paypal and I never received the domain. After numerous email exchanges and excuses, now, all his email addresses bounce back: [email protected], [email protected], [email protected]. Google brings some similar stories in the past. I wish I knew. I trusted him as I bought few domain names from him in the past. Besides my stupidity, how come somebody can ruin his reputation for just $325.00?
Andrew Allemann says
Erhan, PayPal offers Buyer Protection for domain name purchases. You can file a claim with PayPal. (PayPal does not offer seller protection for domain purchases.)
Erhan Yilmaz says
Thanks a lot. Toby asked me to send the payment as a friend to avoid Paypal fees. This is not the first time I sent money to a fellow domainer with zero protection (once I sent money to India to somebody I don’t know). This is the first time I am ripped off. At least it is not a huge amount.