Figuring out if a domain has a premium renewal price can be confusing.
There’s a bit of a quarrel going on right now between two domain name brokers over the sale of a domain with a premium renewal.
One person bought a .TV domain name through the other, only to find out later that it has a $1,000 annual renewal.
It can be nearly impossible to independently verify if a domain has a premium renewal. You need to know if some of the domains in a particular TLD have premiums, then you have to figure out if the specific domain does, and then how much it is. Some TLDs renew at a premium equal to the initial registration fee while others renew at a lower fee but still higher than standard registrations.
Perhaps the “best” way to figure out the renewal fee is to start a domain transfer somewhere and see how much the registrar says it will charge you. Many require a domain authorization code in order to do this.
Of course, the typical non-investor domain buyer isn’t even aware of premium renewals and won’t think to check.
And then the registry for certain types of domains can always change the price later, so that’s another risk.
.TV is particularly confusing since it has had an on again, off-again relationship with premiums.
This just happened to me with Broker.tv… I won it in a recent Sedo auction, but just found out that it has a premium renewal and can’t be transferred. Also happened with LA.condos in the ROTD auction at NamesCon.
Ouch. I assume the broker.tv renewal is about $1,000? What about LA.condos?
I don’t even know what the broker.tv renewal price is… it may not even be that high, but the issue is that the seller could neither transfer it out of the registrar nor even push it to a new account at the same registrar. It’s entirely possible that this is user error (on the seller’s part), but I don’t really care at this point… the whole process has left me with a bad taste in my mouth. I’ve acquired a bunch of good .TV domains in the past, and I’ve never had any issues like this.
Broker.TV seems to have a renewal of about $25 give or take (according to one source, but that could be wrong)
It also has a transfer lock on it, so unless they owe money on their account, they may have forgotten to unlock it for transfer
Here’s the exact reply from Sedo:
“Dear Ammar
unfortunately the seller has tried everything on his side
Since the domain name is a premium .tv that was registered with OVH, the domain name is not allowed to leave the registrar
He has tried everything and also checked all options for an internal transfer in OVH but this also wouldn’t work
Therefore the domain name can not be transferred at all and we have no other choice but to cancel this domain name sale and refund you your payment
We apologize for the inconveniences this might cause you
Regards
Carla”
And then, after I pressed further and questioned the Seller’s motives, I got this response:
“Dear Ammar
no, it really has nothing to do with the domain name price
We have talked to the seller and his registrar ourselves and the transfer out or to another account is not possible. OVH is a registrar that has some really strict rules when it comes to the domain name transfer or account change
We apologize for the inconveniences”
Like I said, at this point, I’m over it, and I don’t care about the domain.
I agree with the comment below, though, that ICANN, registries, and registrars should have to provide a centralized resource or tool whereby anybody can check the “premium” status and renewal cost of any domain name. Moving forward, with all of the gTLD pricing variability, this issue is only going to get worse.
OVH won’t even let the domain change accounts? That’s messed up.
This sounds like total BS to me, I’ve dealt with premium .TV inbound transfers, other than premium fluff it should be possible if unlocked with authcode – so long as the inbound registrar supports premium .TV domains either via their systems or by being willing to manually process the transfer at the registry.
If this fails, verisign could also do a tag change as part of a “bulk” transfer between OVH and the new registrar – although this would require organisation between Verisign and the losing and gaining registrar with each registrar approving to the transfer. Verisign do this free for .TV domains iirc.
Source – .TV registrar who has done everything described.
The sellers know the names are unsellable if they disclose the renewal.
With lots of people having bought ntlds with premium renewals, and with the pressure around renewal time, this problem is going to get far more common.
LA.CONDOS at $240 per year isn’t to bad, it sucks, but it’s not $1000
It’s not terrible for an end user, but not worth the carrying cost as an investor, IMO.
Ron, Doesn’t matter much whether it is $240 or $10,000, at either price it is unlikely to be worth holding on to.
It seems to me that the seller would need to disclose the costs of the sale. If you buy a car and find out that you have to make 1000 dollar payments per year you would be able to sue the seller. There is an expectation that one will pay a standard renewal fee for any given gTLD. I wonder if there are any disclosure laws that currently address issue or is it Caveat Emptor.
The onus falls squarely on ICANN to call for an emergency meeting to figure a way to bring these Domainers masquerading as Registries to order.
But we all know that they won’t do that, heck some of these ICANN big shots might actuallyclandestinely own some of these new gtlds!
@ Domenclature, this particular issue is for a .TV domain. ICANN has little control over ccTLDs.
.TV is no longer a ccTLD if it’s repurposed by ICANN and sold to Americans!
Try to keep up and stop censoring my comments.
.TV is a ccTLD and regulated that way. ICANN didn’t repurpose it. And I’m not censoring your comments.
@Colin That is the beef at hand. Its a matter of responsibility. You MUST disclose any relevant information related to the sale. The broker has a fiduciary responsibility to disclose a $1,000 renewal fee to the buyer.
Now, now disclosing the $1k renewal fee is one thing and bad enough, but if the broker is then called out for not disclosing the fee and says “sorry, thats your problem”…well then now we have a bit more of a problem. One that constitutes taking the matter public so others don’t fall into the same trap with an unethical broker who clearly doesn’t care about his reputation or clients.
Imagine that this broker just crushed his reputation over $500?!?!?!
How can you call yourself a domain expert, if you don’t even take the basic step of verifying a renewal before purchase. What if this was a client domain? It is simply to easy to point the finger in such a situation. You are not some 60 year old grandma that was hustled, you do this day in day out.
That doesn’t excuse the broker. Buyer should have known better but this sale looks to have been about dumping the name on someone before renewal. It feels like a scam to me.
Just buy a .com. No premium renewals. Problem solved.
Garbage, more squatting, brokertv.com, tv broker.com, thebrokertv.com, brokertv1.com, tvbrokercompany.com, mybrokertv.com, broker-tv.com, abrokertv.com, ibrokertv.com, ebrokertv.com
Brokertv.tv.”
Clearly the renewal should have been disclosed, and if the broker knew about the renewal but choose not to disclose you’d have to put a very big question mark next to that broker.
This also raises the obvious issue about .tv and new tlds. Why would you even invest in that space? You don’t know what you are getting now or in the future.
Completely agree, legacy .Tv premiums are a pain in the rear.
https://www.namepros.com/threads/ryan-colby-most-unethical-broker-in-domains.1009680/#post-6072320
This is exactly why I do not deal with the nTLDs at all anymore. I made that mistake with .TV when they came on during the land rush. Needless to say that I did not even bother to sell them, I just did not renew any single one of them. I did not want to sell that headache to someone else.
Fast forward to last year. I bought two 3-character nTLDs, low and behold, differing renewal pricing. I had to let them go. They were not worth the headache. I am moving towards .com or nothing as I currently have a few .net, a few .org, and one 3-character .biz (my nickname) left.
Renewals should be clearly communicated.
This is a failing on the whole market.
Sellers, brokers and marketplaces
“Buyer Beware” is also a thing to consider.
But as the seller is the one who is aware of the renewal, she should ensure such details are prominent.
Brokers should ensure they ask if buying and the information is not listed.
Markets should provide the opportunity to enter the details and failing that, highlight the lack of information…ideally, in the event the field is left empty, penalize on search.
Transparency is a must in domaining considering the bad reputation it has in public circles.
Buyer should double check though
It is the same problem with the secondary market premium sellers like Sedo, Afternic, Flippa etc. You may buy a “cheap” name for just $ 1,000 because the owner wants to get rid of his name and face a $ 1,000 when it comes to renewal. This happens on a daily basis and let thousands of buyers stand in the rain.
When asking the market place operators you get the answer that the buyer is in charge to ask the seller on the renewal conditions. What a crappy answer. It’s again a point at which unexperienced peole feel that the domain name industry is full of bad actors. Keeping our industry healthy is what is needed at this point.
Has anyone an idea how to bring this to a next level of attention? DNA, GNSO, competition authorities?
We decided not to have premium renewals on .berlin from the beginning and are running good with it = Registrars are happy and customers too.
In 2009 and 2010 the. TV premium names were offered at premium prices but with multi year discounts up to 70 percent off. I got the deal and bought 1 premium name for about $500 which I sold to an end user for $18 500. I bought Today.tv on a very small premium, less than $600 I think with a deal to renew on standard prices. It can’t be transferred to other registrars as it remains a premium name and if I let it go it reverts to premium pricing.
It renews at about $30 I think. There is an option of multi year discounts which I need to check which gives you significant discounts. I pay in British Pounds so what I pay varies. I am renewing it today or in a few days and have no plans to let it go.
Had a few offers for it but the price was just not right but don’t mind waiting another 20 years.
At minimum any registrar who wants to implement various premium pricing should be forced to have in place a way for anyone to check renewal pricing for these domains. Similar to the whois search, but for prices of registered domains. After that buyers should be educated to go to the registrars and check. Otherwise this will be a big mess. If seasoned professional domainers/brokers are confused and can be misled, imagine the shock this will have on the average users. A method to easily check pricing should be mandatory by ICANN.
“And then the registry for certain types of domains can always change the price later, so that’s another risk.”