You don’t need a survey to uncover the real reason people despise the domain industry.
DomainIncite is reporting that next week’s new TLD launch party in NYC has been canceled, and instead ICANN will meet with registrars and registries to discuss improving the image and professionalism of the domain name industry.
The discussions follow the not-so-startling confirmation that people perceive the domain industry in a negative light.
There are certainly a number of reasons for this, and parts of the industry are definitely short on professionalism.
But I think the real reason people “hate” the domain industry is quite simple: they wanted a particular .com domain and it was already registered by, heaven forbid, a “squatter”.
I frequently talk to otherwise professional, upstanding, straight-thinking business people who get seriously pissed that someone is sitting on the domain “they thought of” and wants to charge them a couple grand to use “their idea”.
They get all riled up, and then all of the other aspects of the industry that are befuddling simply add to their negative perception.
There’s not much the industry can do to solve the trigger, but hopefully focusing on other areas of professionalism and image will help.
Rubens Kuhl says
The way to cure this is preventing arbitrage, but that’s what ICANN would call discriminatory pricing. Current system is designed to allow arbitrage: buy at fixed price, sell at demand-based pricing.
Kevin Murphy says
I agree, Andrew. That’s why new gTLDs.
Andrew Allemann says
Kevin,
Do you think that will solve the problem? Already, people are registering alternatives to .com when they can’t get the domain they want in .com. There are plenty of alternatives currently available.
I think people will still be upset when the .com isn’t available.
I assume you’re arguing that in the long run people will no longer care about the TLD, thus removing the scarcity?
Jay says
When I buy a land and will do nothing with it, am I “squatter” as well? When I buy stocks, gold, currency and will do nothing just wait for right time to sell them, am I “squatter” again? Well, to me it is same stuff and if that is a case, then most of people are “squatters”, even those who have no idea what domain name is…
Andrew Allemann says
@ Jay –
Absolutely. Which is why the most shocking example is when a real estate company gets upset “their” domain is taken!
Kevin Murphy says
I’m saying that the whole point of the program is, in essence, to:
a) screw Verisign, and
b) screw domainers.
It’s designed to make .com less relevant.
Whether it will work or not is another matter.
Jay says
@ Andrew –
In Kauai, HI there is a street that has my last name. I wish I can apply UDRP-like rules on all those properties on that street, call owners “squatters” and pay WIPO couple hundreds dollars for transferring all those properties to me… 🙂
David Gruttadaurio says
Enlightened end users expect to pay more than $100 for a descent domain. But few expect the price to be thousands of dollars. I recently sold a nice domain for $1150. The buyer told me three times how much he appreciated me being ‘fair’ about the pricing. He had hoped to pay around $1000… but the stretch to $1150 wasn’t an issue. But I know he expected the price to be much more.
SF says
This has been a big problem since the beginning.
As for a solution to the problem, I think it may lie in the secondary domain marketplaces becoming more institutionalized.
By that, I mean it will take “professional” marketmakers and systems similar to the ones where other investments are traded.
When investments like Jay described above are traded, the buyer does not usually go track down and deal with an individual.
There interest in not in Who owns the stock they want to buy. That is not really part of it. So that EMOTIONAL aspect is removed.
The current domain aftermarkets we have are not there, yet. Not by a long shot. With non paying bidders AND sellers who may decide to back out after a sale …there is still a very long way to go when it comes to having a truly professional domain aftermarket(s) where jealousy and emotion are removed from the equation.
DomainPalooza says
@ Jay
Cannot agree with you more!
We’ve always explained it that way too, but the potential buyer doesn’t care and just wants to capitalize on your, our hard work. Why DO they want the domain anyway….TO MAKE MONEY for their business.
We laugh when they think it’s their idea. If it was their idea, why did we think of it first?
You can’t fix stupid.
Viljami Ylönen says
Huge problem, i.e. the image, imho, and not sure if ICANN or the registrars are able to do much about it. Maybe they run a pro-domaining campaign ad with some hot celeb scanning through drop lists with a big smile on her face?
Many people will always be pissed about you owning a domain name they happened to thought of too. I think the best way to tackle the problem is just to be polite as possible and try to work from there.
But. In my view the core problem is the current mindset: you have an idea, you start a business, come up with a name, check the domain availability only to discover, well, you know… And then the denial, anger, bargaining, depression, acceptance…
Anyway. Here’s a proposition: What if we change the whole mindset, i.e. start to promote doing all that backwards? Starting with the domain name.
Zillions of people thinking about business ideas every day, all day. And you know what? Domain names are words that define things, explain things, do things, hint of things, sell things, become things. Simply put, they are ideas in pure form about something. Some better, some more expensive, but there are literally millions of them for under, say, 1000$, and that’s not a bad price for a semi-secured business idea for anyone who is serious about starting a business. And they’re just sitting in places like Sedo waiting to be taken to the next level.
Ok, we all know this. But the general public doesn’t. So let’s change exactly that.
Mike says
How many of these people that complain have a domain or two they have registered but are not using?
Hypocrites and losers are everywhere these days.
It’s so funny when someone calls me a squatter and I do a reverse whois and call their stupid ass out for being fuc*in’ weasels by labeling me one thing while they are doing the same damn thing.
Losers!!!
Jay says
@ SF –
Yes, when investments like stocks, gold, currency are traded, the buyer does not usually go track down and deal with an individual, but that does not apply for real-estate. That is a beauty of domain investment, that each domain is unique, so there is just one seller for such particular piece. Real estate is similar kind, even you can build an exact house as someone else, so it is not exactly same. Anyway – regardless of those facts, in all those kind of investments other than domain investments anyone consider seller as “squatter” and there are no UDRP-like rules there either. Domain industry needs same rights for its investor. Until that happen, we will face this issues on daily bases…
RaTHeaD says
130 years ago you coulda bought a van gogh for five francs. i think we need to institutionalize old time pricing.
KD says
Kevin Murphy – I disagree the whole point of the gTLD program is to:
a) screw Verisign, and
b) screw domainers
In my opinion the entire point of the gTLD program is
a) give ICANN more work and importance
b) give ICANN lots more working capital
c) indirectly creates tons of issues that, ironically, gives ICANN years more work and importance for the next 10 years
I do agree it might be possible that your options are a hidden agenda. Or more likely a side effect of what ICANN really wants for ITSELF – not for the world. To become a more important organization.
Enrico Schaefer says
My experience is that people are willing to pay market rate for a domain already registered or think of another name. But if the domain matches their trademark, they are certainly pissed.
New gTLDs will really help perceptions in several (but not all) ways. First, there will be several available and relevant domains on TLDs. Second, .com will lose its grip on the market, making alternatives acceptable for registrants and web visitors. The frustration caused by the traffic jam on .com will loosen.
Nanda says
Squatting is no more than any other crime in the society. I don’t see how it is different considering the fact that certain % of people do certain things and all crime is part of it as well, what is the big deal why pinpoint domain industry and become self conscious …
Also it is too bad that prime real estate in downtowns all around the world is either built up or bought up. It is very unfair that nobody waited for me to come and purchase the same in 2013.
Have a nice day/night, thank you.
Jay says
@ Enrico –
Why would you pay couple million of dollars for condo in New York City when you can buy hundred of acres somewhere in New Mexico, thousand times cheaper, right? And expect no change – same job, same pay, even same entertainment and shopping in your new place. Right… Huh? Am I missing something?
Jagan Jag says
Here is an idea not discussed above for increasing professionalism of the domain industry. Get certified to practice buying and selling of domain names like realtors exist for residential Real Estate. Commercial Real Estate has its own certifications. Maybe this would help people to keep their valuable domains & show a professional face for the industry.
J says
There are 3 problems here.
1. No liquid market. That often leads to 10-fold plus price difference for the same name between motivated seller vs motivated end user buyer.
2. Any domain used to be free ($70 a year) just 15-20 years ago. People have psychological problem paying thousands or millions for something that was free for the taking just 15 years ago.
3. Tech nerds advising CEOs with domains buying. Tech nerds are filled with envy and jealousy that they were too dumb to register domains in the 90s, and were playing games instead.
DomainPalooza says
@ mike totally agree !!!
@ jay, yes right again, these are assets like gold, silver etc. with an extra feature of brandability.
@ Viljami most domain investors have tried to educate a potential buyer while pulling out their own hair and wasting time and money. The public doesn’t get it. That’s why we own what they want. We have stopped trying to educate the potential buyer, it’s a waste of our time and has never closed a deal. We love these robo emails from people saying how much their shit domain s going to be goo for our business since we already own the .com version.
Once again, you can’t fix stupid.
Life is to short for the unnecessary stress.
Life is also too short to drink cheap beer!
DomainPalooza says
@jagan
Nice thought on paper, but um, most, not all realTurds are douche.
This concept was tried in the photography industry in the 80s and 90s to keep photogs employed and to keep the value of the photography product high. You know what happened? The industry crashed and burned because everyone, especially newbies, were willing to undercut the other photog for a nickel. The pro photog association ASMP which I was a part of preached this constantly, but individuals lied and betrayed the mission statement.
One bad apple, ya know…it then unravels everything.
Jay says
@Jagan Jag –
Let’s get certified for selling and buying soda as well… Then, when you want to drink your Coke or Pepsi, find certified soda agent, pay him 10% commission, pay transfer tax, title fee and at some point you might need to file some IRS form as well. Let’s not…
NovyTimm says
There are certainly trademark squatters, but that’s what the UDRP system is for. In general, I believe domainers perform a positive service for the business community. They buy good domain names that would otherwise sell for $10, and hold them until someone comes along who’s willing to pay $1000 or more. If someone is willing to pay that much money for a domain, then they’re more likely to do something positive and/or important with that domain. In a roundabout way, domainers improve the quality of the Internet. Or at least that’s what I like to tell myself. 😉
lester says
Problem is not so much the speculation, as the possibility to disregard normal market rules.
Normally if a buyer offers a bit more than anyone else, he gets the item.
But domain buyer is entirely at the whim of seller’s pricing policy. It can pay to disregard offers at market value and sell only to those buyers who for whatever reason are willing to pay a significant premium.
Adam says
Kevin, Some of the world’s largest “domainers” are the registrars and registries behind all the new gTLDs . If that was the goal, it’s been a failure from the beginning.
M. Menius says
If a potential buyer is willing to act like a professional, I am happy to work with them and to negotiate. If a buyer comes across as accusatory or goes the bad attitude route, the conversation will end quickly. Life is too short. That may sound a bit callous, but no one can walk into a car dealership and offer $1000 for a new Lexus. If a buyer approaches you, it’s because you have something they want. You acquired the domain. It’s yours to do with as you wish. And you set whatever price you decide. Their offer (and attitude) will determine if they’re worth your time. And if you are a legit domainer, no apology needed … ever.
chris says
a domain is available for reg fee, i buy it and in that act of buying a domain name that is freely available i become a squatter.
what if i buy a domain for $5k am i still a squatter or an investor or a dork.
the reality is that people think domains should be like milk on a shelf, that is how they are used to buying. there should be infinity pet.com or dog .com so we all can have one for 8 bucks
its hard to grasp for most people that an 8 dollar domain could possibly be worth 10k or even a million bucks.
Froggy and Jumpin' in the 'Bu says
I’ve said this before and saying it again:
Let the real estate business come to our aid. Let’s go after all those land buyers who left their land unbuilt, who now have to give them up because some hotel conglomeration says it’s “perfect” for a golf course and hotel accomadations for the resort they have “planned”.
If people don’t get that analogy, then it’s the “forget logic, think who has the better argument by using CASH ASSETS”.
This industry was built by small investors, investing in LAND ON THE INTERNET. Period.
Jeff says
First of all, real estate owners don’t just squat on undeveloped land. There are zoning laws in place for a reason. Plus, it takes skill to get into real estate, land development, and foreclosure processes. It doesn’t take skill to type or buy a domain name and then do absolutely nothing with it besides hope some poor sap wants the url that happens to be the business he has had for the past 5 years.
Many of you domainers have no actual talent and are just looking for a profit. You don’t fill any need or service. You’re the unwanted middleman who weasels his way into a career. It would be totally different if you contributed something to the internet and did something with the web space you have claimed. But you don’t. And this is why people hate you.
Andrew Allemann says
“First of all, real estate owners don’t just squat on undeveloped land”
Um, you should have been there when I tried to buy a half dozen different lots a couple years ago. Sure looked like undeveloped land to me, and none of the owners were willing to sell.
Jeff says
I’m sure there are some. However you don’t know if they had plans for the land. Also there are laws in effect that the governing county or state can take your land if it is in betterment of the city. These laws help rid squatters from real estate and hindering the growth of our communities for their own personal gain.
Andrew Allemann says
Ah, I see. So you don’t like property rights.
n2jc says
Great post.
n2jc says
Furthermore, in real estate, taxes and the cost of upkeep is relative to the value of the property. If I own a property in Manhattan, my tax bill would be far higher than if I own property in Omaha. Whereas in domaining, I could own a super premium domain and pay the same small renewal fee as some lousy domain.