Let’s kill the hubris.
Hey, I’ve got a little secret for you: no one gives a crap about the domain name industry. It’s small potatoes. It’s a speck on a fly. It’s nothing. And people don’t like it, too.
I personally think the domain industry is great and incredibly important. But the fact remains that most people outside our industry don’t care or know about it. We’re tiny. And if they know about it, they certainly don’t care for domainers.
I bring this up because a lot of people on forums are calling for law enforcement to investigate the SnapNames scandal.
Here’s law enforcement’s message: we don’t understand and we don’t care. You’re too small to worry about.
Already, someone has filed a complaint with the Oregon Department of Justice. The response?
…Thank you for the information that you sent us. Although there does not now appear to be a need for an investigation or legal action, we will keep your information on file as part of the public record.
Our primary goal is to identify and eliminate the most serious marketplace violations, and many factors are considered in determining what cases we should pursue.
Read: you guys think this is a bigger deal than it is.
Can you imagine if the Oregon Department of Justice pursued and actually handed down an indictment in the SnapNames scandal? How would they explain to the public about their “win” to protect cybersquatters (as the public views it) at taxpayers’ expense? “Yeah, so there are these things called domain names. They expire, and people buy these expired domains in an auction…(blank stares)…by taking action, we have helped protect the people that profit from expiring domains, people that every citizen of Oregon should care about their livelihood”.
Let’s face it. Domain theft happens every day. How many arrests and indictments do we know about? One. And that took perseverance to get the police to investigate.
The typical law enforcement agency doesn’t know the first thing about domain names. They understand burglary, terrorism, and domestic violence. And they get glory for pursuing those things.
Like it or not, the domain industry is minuscule. And disliked. Especially people who buy expired domain names. So don’t count on much public empathy or protection from the authorities.
Tim Davids says
You got it…the best way to handle this snap problem is not to do business with companies you think may be shady…oops, there went half of the domain industry 🙂
Rick Schwartz says
That’s fine. Most domainers don’t really seem to care.
But if there is no investigation, than we ARE witnessing a cover up. Still I think this is more for the FBI than the state. If it were the state, they could easily make an announcement about an investigation. If it were the FBI, they may be directed to be silent. If this is a coverup, they are burying themselves and will not survive given how long this has already gone on.
Andrew Allemann says
Rick – I just read your latest blog post. Have you called any authorities?
Anthony Hanner says
You’re right, very few people I try to explain this industry to on a daily basis understand it. But, above all, I consider many in this industry not as domainers, rather as business owners. If we concentrate on developing quality content on quality websites and build quality businesses then the industry will be seen, eventually, in a more favorable light…through the very businesses we have built.
Is the Snapnames fiasco unfortunate, you bet…and that is an understatement. But those of us who are more concerned with building solid businesses on a daily basis should just keep our sights on building our businesses and working to further the industry.
Chris says
You hit the nail on the head Andrew.
Elliot says
The public may not care about domain investors, but the same can be said about the Bernie Madoff situation. The public doesn’t care much about the wealthy individuals who lost their investments (except for the charities that have been impacted). However, the general public does LOVE to read about a huge fraud case.
Andrew Allemann says
@ Elliot – I was waiting for someone to bring up Madoff 🙂 Two differences: the scale of the Madoff scandal was many times bigger than the entire domain industry. And the people who were defrauded are important enough to get the press.
Aron says
WOW. You won’t believe my blog post that I just submitted. Our industry is too secretive… I agree with you. 🙂
Idiot Domainer says
Hey Rick Schwartz is there an investigation pending on how many domains you bid on at TRAFFIC auctions or how many fake bids were placed by the auctioneers ? just curious
G33k Diva says
Andrew, Idiot Domainer: HA! Kudos! Kudos to anyone who is willing to give their opinion on any of these matters (regardless if you like the opinion given or not) It takes intestinal fortitude.
I am a developer and part owner of a huge portfolio. I have bought, sold and traded domains for a long time. I attended (notice the PAST TENSE) TRAFFIC conferences..a lot of them. NOT ONCE has Rick or Howard EVER shaken our hands, said hello or treated any of the vendors with respect as far as placement of their booths, etc. Do not get me started on having to get a ticket to get a drink..Arrrrgghhhhh Childish..
A great friend of mine was nominated for Domainer Hall of Fame.. NOT ONCE did Rick or Howard go out of their way to say hello or to find out WHO he was or why so many people recommended him..granted having the award is kinda like winning an extra oil change at Walmart.. Yet we kept going because we thought things would change (definition of insanity)
If I said who we were in this post THEY WOULD HAVE A HEART ATTACK. Rick Latona at had the courtesy and manners to greet us and to say hello, converse and share a couple of drinks at a NYC bar with us. I hope he does well with redoing the TRAFFIC conference so it isn’t like attending a used car sale in the valley. It’s criminal how some people just don’t seem to take care of their fellow domainers. It’s too small a community (shark tank) to go and tick people off!…
We have to monitor and police ourselves..It’s hard but, in all fairness, “Caveat Emptor”..”What goes around Comes Around”..(insert pithy statement here)…
Rick Schwartz says
@Idiot, you have a perfect name.
Rick Schwartz says
G33k Diva
You are anon here and you were anon there. Hard to greet a GHOST!
Ravi says
Are we 10 yrs behind or 10 yrs ahead of race 🙂
Rick Schwartz says
Funny how someone else does things wrong, illegal, screws everyone in the industry and then the barrels are turned on me with BS innuendo supported by other BS innuendo.
Idiot Domainer says
So does that mean you don’t see any problems with your bidding at TRAFFIC auctions, where you take a piece of the revenue of that auction ? OR that there’s no problem with an auctioneer pulling bids out of thin air . . . “bidding on behalf of the seller” ? huh?
David J Castello says
It stands to reason that, at this point in time, it would be far easier to get traditional media involved than law enforcement. And the press is a commonly used strategy to kick-start criminal investigations. As you said, the domain industry may not be “respected” by law enforcement agencies, but many people have bought at least one domain name and that alone makes this event newsworthy to the general public.
Arbel says
Oregon have bigger issues to deal with right now.
I have a business there, with 12% unemployment They don’t care about “halvarez”
EM @ KING.NET says
We should create a 300×250 ads plaster to our blogs.
Everyone here have their own blogs. The media will follow from our own initiatives. Maybe ICA will start the article and we point the 300×250 ad to that article.
Just a thought!
Gordon says
this industry is very, very self important.
Rick Schwartz says
Andrew, have you?
Andrew Allemann says
Rick – notified the authorities? Nope. As it turns out, Halvarez didn’t cost me any money, so I’m not even technically a victim. I’m just curious because I wonder what they said.
jp says
Of course the cops don’t care. From my experience, the cops only come if someone is bleeding or if the cops stand to make money from the deal. If the general population walking the streets knew just how not-safe we are there would be chaos and anarchy. My supporting evidence:
about 6 years ago my wife was driving (me in the passangar seat). She accidentally cut someone off merging onto the freeway, who then opened fire on us. Back windows went out and everything. I called the cops from my cell, I kid you not they said “has anyone been hit?” I said no, not yet, then they responded “well then try to get away because we are too busy with traffic accidents right now”. The story gets even more interesting later when the news refused to do a story on it because they said “we don’t want to spread this kind of fear”, but I won’t bore you with all those details
exhibit B:
in January this year my identity was stolen. It was interesting actually, the thief was using my card to buy things online for me (they had everything shipped to me). He was doing it for the affiliate commisions (I had a lot of subscriptions to cancel in the end). Anyway I was able to identify an IP address in Ft Collins Colorado by the help of several of the companies as they track the ips of orders on their systems, however were the cops willing to do anything? NO. They said again they were too busy and that it wasn’t over enough money ($1k before I shut down the card, about 3 hours). Basically what I heard was that they weren’t going to investigate this one because it won’t be profitable enough for them. The same person has probably stolen countless other identities by now.
Anyway my point to this ridiculous tirade is that just because Johnny Law won’t do anything doesn’t really have any reflection on the domain industry. Plenty of other parties seem to be interested enough in it, mainly lawyers.
Sorry if alot of typoes, iPhone
g33k diva says
Rick. My name is Charlotte Gilbert. I am now part own
er,full time developer,designer and face of InnovationHQ. I am NEVER anonymous. My good friend is actually my husband Brian Gilbert who was up for the award
Gordon says
this scandal was already featured on TechCrunch and in some small articles in major papers (washington post) – will be next to impossible to get any more legs from this. I guess I could see the journal doing a piece on it – though that still won’t cause law enforcement to get involved……
Rick Schwartz says
g33k diva
Well there is one of me and 350 attendees of over 1200 different domainers that have come to our shows. Most folks come over and introduce themselves. My wife and Howard’s wife are there to greet everyone that comes.
I am really not too good at knocking chips off of peoples shoulders. You should be proud your husband was nominated but I guess we just have people we like nominated and he must have slipped thru. Right??
Vic says
Aren’t the domainers who really give a damn rich enough to hire lawyers? Or has everybody gone broke?
loveitorleaveit says
Can’t we all just get along ?
loveitorleaveit says
How to calculate your DS Rev-Share ?
Whatever they tell you minus 17 plus
(.003% x rebate) devided by two.
stu says
Listen to be a great domainer you need money and be a great give plenty ofBS like Rick Schwartz !
Rob Sequin says
Rick,
The pioneers take the arrows so everyone else can live happily ever after.
Andrew,
I hate to admit it but I think you are right, most people don’t care about this industry BUT when they care about a particular domain, they REALLY care about this industry.
I tell people that I am a domain name broker and domains are like land where websites are the buildings on the land so I’m a real estate broker for internet land.
That helps most people at least understand. THEN, many times they ask me about a particular domain that they would like to own.
So, get people to care about domains and the industry will take care of itself.
What can we do to educate people about domains?
Robert Haastrup-Timmi says
Do you guys think there is about 60% cronyism in the domain industry and only 40% fair play in favour of the average seller?
It would be very easy for anyone to pick holes here. I’d rather encourage the leaders of this industry, to get together as a round table initiative and seriously set up an “aftermarket” domain standard similar to the oil industry.
Now it would never be perfect, however it would create more credibility and significant awareness to the end consumer. If we want the general public to care and take notice, then we must create a benchmark that is universally acceptable. Right now, the domain business is just the wild wild west!
Ed Muller says
Domainers are their own worst enemy. Some of the best ones out there have never said two words to anyone. Some of the worst spend all their time yammering on about names that a college senior wouldn’t barter for a beer.
What’s worse is if domainers really got behind a non-profit org to further our goals, we’d never get agreement on what we wanted to accomplish.
1337D says
Not PSSSSSSST but WHOAAAAAAAAA…
OK so nobody cares, you all have to learn live with that, you can’t be famous and domainer at the same time (sure famous between other domainer but this just doesn’t count).
You can’t get free hot chicks, I repeat FREE, you are not celebrity, so DO something with your life, try to become a real CELEBRITY here is the ultimate FIRST STEP:
1, Stop spending Your time with domains, I can help you, so please send me all of your domains:
I will:
-Type them every morning.
-Type them few times per day.
(I don’t want them to feel lonely)
-Type them before I go to bed.
-Every Friday night forward some traffic from another domains.
-Every Saturday night forward some traffic from adult-oriented domain
-Every Sunday forward traffic from catholic typos ( Once per month from another religion)
-If they’d like we can do farming or fishing
-and many many more….
I promise!
So please mail me
1337domainer@gmail.com
Kind Regards ; )
JZ says
According to Wikepedia all domainers are cybersquatters, and since most affected by snapnames actions were domainers, so we should not be surprised that the legal department, or the police don’t care, to them is like crooks stealing from crooks.
So, I agree with Robert Hasstrup, the leaders in the industry should get together and do something to change the perception of the general public about the domain industry.
Why should the leaders in the domain industry care about getting together to change this perception people have about domainers? The way I look at it is, that they have the most to gain or loose, since they own some of the most valuable domains, they will be protecting their investment, in light of so many ridiculous arbitration decisions by WIPO and NAF, it will be easyer for WIPO and NAF’s “clients”(complainants)to file for arbitration and win, even against the leaders in the industry.
Domain Investor says
g33k diva,
Don’t assume I am running specifically to the defense of Rick S.
I have attended a number of domain conferences. If you ignore the conference manager (past organizers – Ron Sheridan, Jay w., Ammar, Donny, Jothan, Stephen, Adam S., Frank M, etc), they don’t have the time to seek you out and talk to you.
I have found Rick and Howard very cordial.
If I spoke to them they took the time to talk.
Brian is very knowledgeable about domains.
But, he has had an attitude about Rick for years. If someone mentions Rick on DS, for years Brian was there to add more fuel to the fire.
Maybe, Brian’s dislike is projected when he attends Traffic?
Aubrey says
I’m surprised I have heard no one mention the FTC yet. Seems to me they are the appropriate agency to go to, since this is a matter of unfair trade practices.
pitbullstew says
uh? excuse me we arent all big deal domainers like the rest of you here, some of us are just looking to get our companies going and the guy at snapnames who did all this?
Well he may have clipped me, but it wont happen again.
I will continue to do things the ol fashioned way, hard work,long hours, hones days pay, word of mouth, and ya’ll can hang out with a common pick pocket from snapnames?
Adam Strong says
@DomainInvestor Should I assume you were referring to me ? I don’t run any conferences. Never have . . . and don’t plan on it either. I think you are right though it is a bit tough for an organizer to meet everyone at a big show. There’s plenty of opps for the attendee to meet organizers after speeches, cocktail parties, etc. though.
pitbullstew says
oh lets agree to disagree on this that nobody cares, why I have read the FDA cares and as the FDA cares? So does the pharma industry.
As more of these issues boil over because the whol lot of you see yourselves above the law with respect to the business ehtics your crowd do not have?Then there will be ecer more class action suits by everyday folk who arent buying and flipping names bit rather are everday folk earning a living the old fashioned way, byt goods and services they provide who you damage in examples like what we have come to learn yet again? Hre another ditty of others who care?
Attention –
Present and former customers of
RegisterFly.com
Class Action Lawsuit Against RegisterFly, ICANN, and ENOM
Have you been denied or are you being denied access to your domain names that you have registered at RegisterFly.com?
Have you lost domain names despite attempting to renew them through RegisterFly.com or transfer them elsewhere?
Have you been charged for services that were not delivered by RegisterFly.com?
Was the domain contact and/or ownership information changed without your permission to either RegisterFly.com or someone else entirely?
It’s time to PROTECT YOUR RIGHTS >>
Dave Corish says
Any sponsor, vendor, organizer, employee, officer, etc., of a domainer convention, registar, or domain auctioneer should not be allowed to participate in the respective domain auctions for those entities.
The Snapnames situation is sleazy, but really no surprise. The fact that Adam Dicker, a Godaddy VP, bid against clueless TDNAM customers in those TDNAM auction(s) is troubling, but really no surprise. The REAL surprise is that he didn’t get fired. Another REAL surprise is the way the domain industry highlights a creep like Dicker as someone worthy of praise, instead of shunning him for bottom-feeding.